New York Times on Teens & Top Surgery

[TheClogLady]

New article. Long and seemingly well researched, trans sympathetic but not a puff piece.

Has quotes from one trans (mtf) surgeon criticising another surgeon (a woman who does a lot of top surgery)

The author is already being attacked on Twitter, because, presumably, proving that minors do definitely get trans surgeries, even if it’s still relatively small number compared to over 18s is verboten?

The article quotes a mother saying she had to pay for her teen’s surgery because insurance won’t cover it til 18, which might be the real reason why the numbers of minors getting surgery are still relatively small?

archive.ph/oGu15

Multiple posts because Mumsnet keeps reloading deleting my work in progress!

Twitter response (paraphrase) ‘this might be true but for fucks sake don’t say it’

In the US though genital surgeries are happening on minors too. The most famous child who was going through transition (Jazz Jennings) had surgery at 17 and the TV programme I am Jazz featured at least one if not more other children who had had genital surgery, I think the other one was even younger like 16 or so.

I don’t disagree at all - the US legacy media is still just taking baby steps on this issue though, fingers crossed there are enough holes in the dam to jettison some of the puffery and get the full truth out there.

I thought it was rather hypocritical of Marci Bowers (who did Jazz’s genital surgery) to criticise Sidhbh Gallagher.

Pot/Kettle = black!

Comments on the New York Times are tightly moderated so its fascinating to see the vast majority allowed to stand find it abhorrent that there are mastectomies on healthy teenage breasts. Other comments speak to the ignorance of the Democrats on this topic, e.g. "I can't be the only liberal who thinks this is child abuse." Readers of the Times are overwhelmingly on the left, as evidenced from these comments alone which are at about 1,900. Getting a NYTimes comment posted isn't the easiest task, so there were likely many times over 1,900 who tried.

I find it comedic that there are angry Twitters complaining that terfs organize on Ovarit to flood the New York Times comment feed. Terfs must be rich, I suppose to pay for all those subscription rates! I'm sure Ovarit, which has about 1,200 active users per month, welcomes this free advertising. Either there aren't enough TRAs who subscribe to the NYTimes to balance that 'brigade of Ovarit terfs' OR the overwhelmingly left-leaning readership is fully aware the emperor wears no clothes.

An example from the comments that reflects the majority:

"Why would any child be allowed to have surgery to change their body permanently and possibly make themselves barren for life ? I thought our brains weren’t even fully formed to 25. I am liberal and progressive but this is just wrong. Changing one’s name or pronoun and experimenting sexually is one thing.
Making yourself barren for life and making permanent body changes when under 25 let alone 18 is craziness. Why is common sense so absent lately?"

There's another flavor in the comments section that is appalled Dr. Gallagher is allowed to practice medicine at all.

This was one of the more flavorful:

""Dr. Sidhbh Gallagher’s unusual embrace of social media platforms like TikTok has made her one of the most visible surgeons in her field."

That's a weird way of saying, "Dr. Sidhbh Gallagher advertises plastic surgeries on social media to impressionable children who are struggling with misogyny, homophobia, and the general malcontent of puberty. This is rarely done in her field because it's highly unethical and predatory."

Wow!

I can’t see the comments (as you rightly point out, they aren’t being created by a planned brigade of terves, who has the time or money to subscribe everywhere?) so it’s fascinating to know they are plentiful and pretty much the same as what we say over here.

Do you think this article is a good sign that the Liberal/Left of America are finally starting to find their voices on this topic?

it feels like something big to me, but I’m on Terf Island so it’s hard to gauge.

I think there's a tide turning as Democrats get more details on what is really happening. When they do, this is a common refrain (another comment from the article):

"the point made that the right is quick to rebuff these surgeries sounds very, very different when we call them what they are: elective radical double mastectomies for non consenting minors. I'm pro abortion, pro biden, pro immigration, pro trans, pro black lives matter, pro medicaid, etc but elective radical double mastectomies for non consenting minors is at a threshold that I don't see myself (and for the looks of it, most commenters here) ever being ready to cross"

And if you say that out loud, you get called a transphobe and some of the other bits start to unravel…

"Yeet the Teet" - FFS! But a better article from the NYT than we'd have seen even a year or so ago. Maybe the message is finally getting out on the west side of the Atlantic too.

Good lord it feels like a week of highs and lows/hopes and disappointments. A general kind of intensifying towards a climax maybe? Maybe I've just been on Mumsnet too much😂

One of my teens reads a lot of the online TRA stuff and tells me that these surgeries on teens are all just scaremongering by the right wing press, or something.
I think you're supposed to pretend it's not happening.

I've seen over th epast five years, the comment on NYT articles on this have generally been pretty concerned. Maybe less than here, but I don't think it's wholly new.

Which raises a lot of questions about who the people that are so gung-ho and unable to see part their progressive label really are? I don't mean in a conspiracy theory kind of way, but in terms of what kind of a faction do they really represent.

Agree. The comments in NYT are always critical of these surgeons & rightly so. I subscribe to NYT & read it daily & there have been some highly critical essays, op-eds & articles in the past 18m. The tide is turning.

As an aside, it’s not difficult to get a comment published, it’s difficult to get into NYT picks of the comments.

I think the majority of parents of whatever political persuasion are anti medicalization of gender identity struggles. Its just that none of the "Legacy Media", MSM or whatever would let critical readers' comments stand or publish any real journalism. The silencing has been across the board. As someone living in the USA all the adults I speak to are against drugs & surgery as treatment for children, and I am in a very Left wing area. Silencing has been happening across the western world. While teens have been indoctrinated by social media and aren't getting a balanced view. It would be wrong to suggest this stuff is popular in the US, it isn't. The narrative has been tightly controlled.

I agree with Ravensclawdropout about the general feelings of parents in the states. GC parents may be polite and quiet around the parents who have trans kids, but we silently think they're nuts to give them puberty blockers. In safe conversations, people who trust each other will say it's wrong, but won't speak up in public because there's always a risk of that one informant who is more than happy to paint you as a bigot and then you lose your job, your social standing and your kids suffer. Not to mention, the schools have TRA teachers who are itching to call CPS (child protective services) on parents who don't affirm. It happens. My teen DDs warn me to keep my feminism quiet so they won't be bullied at school...we live in a very progressive area, and I'm a progressive Democrat.

At some point, the scales will tip, so I try to focus on small conversations to help move the needle. Right now, I feel the most for the parents who have ROGD teenagers or tweens who can't trust authority figures (schools, counselors, pediatricians are risky).

One interesting thing I've noted, many of my progressive and liberal Facebook friends, some of who regularly post on Pride issues, have gone silent on anything trans. It's becoming a game of chicken.

As someone living in the USA all the adults I speak to are against drugs & surgery as treatment for children, and I am in a very Left wing area.

Sadly, my sister, who lives just outside Portland, OR, is very woke on this issue - doing my best to talk to her about the issues, but it's hard to argue with someone who ignores the evidence. Like nailing jelly to the wall.