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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Please help - meeting with assistant head

47 replies

IGoWalkingAfterMidnight · 27/09/2022 11:13

Re her assembly on gender pronouns.

she referred children to Mermaids and Stonewall for advice and support in this assembly and also spoke about ‘gender observed’.

what can I say to signpost her to some information that won’t get me sacked?!

in school at present so won’t be able to respond immediately.

We’re in Wales if that makes a difference!

Diolch

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IGoWalkingAfterMidnight · 27/09/2022 11:14

I expressed some misgivings so this is why she has requested a meeting

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ArabellaScott · 27/09/2022 11:25

Sacked? You work for the school, I presume?

Sex Matters would be best placed to ask: sex-matters.org/posts/category/resources/

Maybe Safe Schools Alliance:

safeschoolsallianceuk.net/

Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/09/2022 11:41

I would see what she wants to talk about, but yes read up with the links suggested. They can't sack you just for expressing misgivings.

WearyLady · 27/09/2022 11:45

Especially not in the light of the recent Telegraph investigation into Mermaids.

TheScorpionandtheFrog · 27/09/2022 11:56

Tell her you read this and are worried her assembly might have breached guidelines, that puts the onus on to her to defend what she said;

''Teachers should not tell children that they might be a different gender based on their personality or the clothes they want to wear, new guidance from the Department for Education states.''
www.theguardian.com/education/2020/sep/25/government-issues-gender-identity-guidance-for-teachers-in-england

www.gov.uk/guidance/plan-your-relationships-sex-and-health-curriculum

nauticant · 27/09/2022 11:56

I assume you're aware of this OP:

www.gov.uk/guidance/plan-your-relationships-sex-and-health-curriculum

We are aware that topics involving gender and biological sex can be complex and sensitive matters to navigate. You should not reinforce harmful stereotypes, for instance by suggesting that children might be a different gender based on their personality and interests or the clothes they prefer to wear. Resources used in teaching about this topic must always be age-appropriate and evidence based. Materials which suggest that non-conformity to gender stereotypes should be seen as synonymous with having a different gender identity should not be used and you should not work with external agencies or organisations that produce such material. While teachers should not suggest to a child that their non-compliance with gender stereotypes means that either their personality or their body is wrong and in need of changing, teachers should always seek to treat individual students with sympathy and support.

Princessglittery · 27/09/2022 12:08

I would refer to the interim Cass report cass.independent-review.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Cass-Review-Interim-Report-Final-Web-Accessible.pdf

You could mention that you are aware of Maya’s EAT, ET and Alison’s ET and that their employers were made to look very foolish because they didn’t question what the actual evidence is (the Cass review does this) or consider alternative views that are also protected beliefs. You are concerned the school is risking giving advice it is not qualified to give which could raise safeguarding issues. Additionally the school could end up in the media looking very foolish like CDC and GCC.

TheClogLady · 27/09/2022 12:35

Just ask her to read the head to read the Cass Report and say you’d be happy to discuss it in a meeting after she’s read it?

then go in with the government schools stuff re: not saying anyone is born in the wrong body, and the telegraph Mermaids article.

Point out that this is a tipping point and the government will be issuing guidance soon (see the Cornwall case thread).

if she isn’t amenable and takes it out on you then you can back yourself up with the Maya ruling.

I wish the government would bloody hurry up!

TheClogLady · 27/09/2022 12:40

This is the Mermaids specific stuff at SSA:

safeschoolsallianceuk.net/2021/02/20/does-your-childrens-school-use-mermaids

TheClogLady · 27/09/2022 12:43

This has literally just gone live (not suggesting you show the head the DM but might be something useful in there)

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11251357/Trans-charity-Mermaids-faces-watchdog-probe-childrens-chest-flattening-binders.html

MrsOvertonsWindow · 27/09/2022 12:59

Lots of good advice - I'd just add this very good guidance for schools from Sex Matters in how schools can avoid unlawful discrimination relating to sex and gender reassignment protected characteristics:

sex-matters.org/posts/updates/schools-guidance/

IGoWalkingAfterMidnight · 27/09/2022 13:33

On lunch - yes, I’m a teacher at the school. Thank you so much for the links 🙏

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Soontobe60 · 27/09/2022 13:36

Just listen to what they say, tell them you’ll need time to respond and arrange a further meeting at your convenience. Then get your ducks in a row with your information.

EnfysPreseli · 27/09/2022 16:55

The DfE Guidance other posters have quoted is England only unfortunately. Merched Cymru have been campaigning for similar safeguards in the Welsh Government RSE Guidance. They seem to be completely captured and have previously endorsed really dodgy resources like Agenda and Crush. I'll try and dig out some links to Merched Cymru's work on RSE. They want factual, accurate, anti-sexist RSE and had lots of issues with earlier drafts of the Welsh Gov guidance.

IGoWalkingAfterMidnight · 27/09/2022 17:06

Diolch EnfysPreseli

I was about to ask about that guidance - Merched Cymru have an uphill battle on this

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Theeyeballsinthesky · 27/09/2022 18:00

You’ve got lots of wonderful links OP so just wanted to send 💐 it’s not easy to do this stuff

rogdmum · 27/09/2022 18:17

When is the meeting? If it hasn’t already happened, I can send you a copy of the complaint I sent to the Charities Commission in 2020 which would hopefully make most schools (not my daughter’s school, of course) think twice about recommending Mermaids- adolescents merrily recommending GenderGP to each other, the free binder service offered even where the parents won’t allow a binder due to the physical risks etc.

if you want a copy, just DM me

EnfysPreseli · 27/09/2022 18:58

Here are a few links to Merched Cymru stuff. Sorry, got distracted after the school run.

A briefing for the Senedd that covers the key points (Dec 2021, but still relevant): merchedcymru.wales/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/MC-briefing-Welsh-Gov-RSE-Code-Dec-2021.pdf
A summary of what MC have been saying: merchedcymru.wales/rse_update/

Their current campaign to help concerned parents to raise concerns with their child's school has some resources. There are some other template letters around, but they are often anti-RSE or for parents who don't want their children taught about same-sex attraction. This stuff is more sensible I think, and the template letter is available in Cymraeg as well. merchedcymru.wales/ask-your-school/

EnfysPreseli · 27/09/2022 19:10

Sorry OP. I meant to ask ... Why does she think an Assembly on 'gender pronouns' is necessary? Do you have any idea where she got the idea that 'gender observed' etc is a thing?

So many teachers, particularly from schools in and around Cardiff from what I've heard, are very easily influenced by edgy, iconoclastic academics and reps from charities who have bought into the ideology. There are also young people - often quite troubled and vulnerable who have found validation and their tribe in trans activism - going around talking to other young people about how 'biology is a lot more complicated' that there are six sexes, that sex is assigned and that humans can literally change sex, and various other cliched misinformation. I've got a lot of sympathy for the young people but policy makers, teachers and particularly head teachers need to give their heads a wobble if they are not thinking critically or doing due diligence before waving this through and advertising questionable organisations to pupils.

IGoWalkingAfterMidnight · 27/09/2022 21:45

We're a valleys school with I guess a fairly high proportion of struggling pupils - my comment today that we could end up in trouble in future if we point students to organisations like Mermaids is what earned me my summons.

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moogdroog · 27/09/2022 22:01

OP, if your comment was only regarding Mermaids, I would simply point to the exposure they got in the Telegraph re. binders/parental consent, and the subsequent news of the investigation by the Charity Commission. Maybe the Cass report, re. social transistion.
Sounds like the dep head is being gung-ho, and it might be a soft way to give pause, whilst giving you a bit of time before going back with resources, such as those from Merched Cymru.

LaughingPriest · 28/09/2022 09:40

Would a question like this be valuable in prompting discussion? "If a child asks how they can find out whether they are a boy or a girl, what answer do you suggest?"
If the answer is along the lines of 'feeling like a girl' or 'feeling like a boy' ask what is meant (to get out of the circular usages of 'boy' and 'girl').

IGoWalkingAfterMidnight · 29/09/2022 16:49

Thanks for all the support, advice and information.

Just to say, I had an email cancelling the meeting but adding that she had amended the assembly. I haven't seen or spoken to anyone about the new content so don't know what has been changed.

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LaughingPriest · 29/09/2022 16:57

What a coincidence, as the Charity Commission has just announced they're going to be investigated (I'm sure they'll find nothing to worry about!)
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/09/29/exclusive-trans-charity-mermaids-investigated-charity-commission/

IGoWalkingAfterMidnight · 29/09/2022 17:17

A phrase that was repeated several times when I saw the assembly was that we have to 'educate ourselves'.

I think that got my back up too...hopefully she has gone and done some self-educating of her own!

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