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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Scottish consultation embedding gender in statistic

11 replies

Lovelyricepudding · 20/09/2022 22:50

Please fill in this Scottish Government consultation that is seeking to embed 'gender' in equality statistics in Scotland.

It states "we recognise that there are currently inconsistencies in the collection of data on sex and gender across the public sector in Scotland. The Chief Statistician [of self ID in the census fame] sought to address this and his working group concluded and published new guidance for public sector bodies in September 2021" Note these guidelines predate the court inner session ruling for for women scot that sex in the equality act means biological sex and that court case and its implications are ignored in favour of gender identity and self ID.

consult.gov.scot/housing-and-social-justice/equality-evidence-strategy-2023-25/

OP posts:
334bu · 20/09/2022 23:32

Thanks for link.

FemaleAndLearning · 21/09/2022 07:20

Very sneaky and does not reflect the protected characteristics by using sex/gender.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 21/09/2022 09:37

Thanks for the link. I did some work this morning! I went through and told them to separate biological sex from gender identity for every darned question where I thought it mattered. Phew!

ghostofadog · 21/09/2022 10:37

Thanks for posting, I'll do this later on

Iadorerain · 21/09/2022 10:39

Could you give a bit of guidance

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 21/09/2022 12:08

I had to ferret around a bit in the documents, they are in an HTML online format plus there are PDFs or Word documents to download.

The document Data Collection and Publication Guidance: Sex, Gender Identity, Trans Status 2021
by Roger Halliday (Chief Statistician) does make a nice clear distinction between biological, legal and self-defined sex.

But this isn't reflected in the
"Equality Evidence Strategy Paper: 2023-25 Consultation" which we're being asked to comment on.

I'm with Roger.

ArabellaScott · 21/09/2022 13:12

thanks, OP. Will do later. Did you post on Scotsnet, at all?

ArabellaScott · 21/09/2022 21:36

'Within the draft improvement plan, we use the term 'equality variables' to refer to data on age, disability, race/ethnicity, sex/gender, religion, sexual orientation, transgender status, pregnancy and maternity, and marriage and civil partnership, plus "intersections" between these characteristics (e.g. younger women; minority ethnic disabled people; older trans people etc.). Sometimes what is collected in data (e.g. ethnicity, gender) differs from the wording in the Equality Act 2010 (e.g. race, sex).

We recognise that there are currently inconsistencies in the collection of data on sex and gender across the public sector in Scotland. The Chief Statistician sought to address this and his working group concluded and published new guidance for public sector bodies in September 2021. It is recommended that public bodies implement this guidance where practicable. This guidance has been used to inform the proposed actions in the draft improvement plan.'

www.gov.scot/publications/equality-evidence-strategy-2023-25-consultation-paper/pages/6/

So far, the consultation document seems to sometimes use 'sex' and sometimes 'gender'. I can't see the rationale for either in any instances.

ArabellaScott · 21/09/2022 21:38
  • and sometimes sex/gender, for that matter.
MathSage · 24/09/2022 12:54

Right up front the document introducing the consultation says:

“Within the draft improvement plan, we use the term 'equality variables' to refer to data on age, disability, race/ethnicity, sex/gender, religion, sexual orientation, transgender status, pregnancy and maternity, and marriage and civil partnership, plus "intersections" between these characteristics (e.g. younger women; minority ethnic disabled people; older trans people etc.). Sometimes what is collected in data (e.g. ethnicity, gender) differs from the wording in the Equality Act 2010 (e.g. race, sex).”

Indicating that sex and gender will likely be conflated. In fact they acknowledge that they will not use the terms of the Equality Act.

When you get into the guidance from Roger Halliday, the Chief Statistician, ( www.gov.scot/publications/data-collection-publication-guidance-sex-gender-identity-trans-status/pages/1/) look at the definitions. The definition of sex is:

”For the purposes of collecting data, a person's sex is generally defined as male or female. There are different aspects to a person's sex:

  • Biological: as determined by a person's anatomy, which is produced by a combination of their chromosomal, hormonal, genital and gonadal characteristics, and their interactions.
  • Legal: typically legal sex is their sex registered at birth. However, for a trans person with a full Gender Recognition Certificate, their legal sex is their acquired sex.
  • Self-defined: a person's innate sense of whether they are female or male”

So sex has been redefined to include the Stonewall definition of Gender Identity.

Not impressed.

MathSage · 24/09/2022 15:05

Current Draft Guidance from the Office of Statistics Regulation(OSR) says:

“Statistics should meet their intended uses and should inform public debate. To achieve this, producers must seek to understand their whole user base and the questions that users want to be able to answer with their statistics.”

Note the whole user base.

The Draft Guidance also states

”Producers should be clear about definitions or terminology they use, and these should be harmonised to be consistent and coherent with related statistics and data where possible. The terms ‘sex’ and ’gender’ should not be used interchangeably in official statistics.”

It seems to me that the Scottish Chief Statistician is advising exactly the blurring of that distinction. He pretty well acknowledges this when he says:

”Given that for the vast majority of people sex and gender identity questions will provide the same result, for most issues one may want to measure, whether there is a question about sex or about gender identity, it will not skew the statistics when disaggregated by either concept.”

He is presuming that this is true for the vast majority - how can we tell? He’s also assuming that they can get realistic responses to trans identity questions. Given the confusion of the trans umbrella confusion, how many people will indicate they are trans just because they fall somewhere in the LGBTQ… alphabet? If they even answer at all - a major concern.

The Scottish Chief Statistician does include good definitions of gender, gender identity and transgender. In particular he says “Organisations such as the World Health Organisation, and the Royal Statistical Society define gender identity as a personal, internal perception of oneself, and so the gender category someone identifies with may not match their sex registered at birth what an individual experiences as their innate sense of themselves as a man, a woman, as having no gender identity, or as having a non-binary gender – where people identify as somewhere on a spectrum between man and woman”. It’s odd that gender identity seems to include the notion of not having a gender identity. Perhaps he means agender, which is different, it means believing there is a gender essence but not believing it applies to you.

Sorry, long ramble. I get very cross when I look deeper into this and see how many stats are already distorted into what doesn’t upset particular groups and what is easy to collect. The Criminal Justice stats are a dreadful hodgepodge of self-identified, officer-assessed or institutionally defined - obviously anyone in a woman’s prison is a woman, right?

I’m not sure I’m helping anyone here.

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