Incels are now the spokesmen for trans people?

[QuitePissedOff]

I wonder, how do trans people feel, now that male incels have appointed themselves the spokesmen for trans people against women and girls?

I will have to spend a bit of time looking at "transmaxxing".

But what is interesting (and gives me some hope) as that people who are so extreme in their views change. Incels who have so much hatred against women then decide to later become women. (Granted it's one extreme to the other).

I have no doubt that many of these extreme trans activists will in 5-10 years walk away and pretend that they weren't this extreme with their views and accept the realities of biology, whilst pretending that they had nothing to do with the childhood transitioners who later detransition.

I see two separate issues here. One is about who the black-clad ninjas were in Brighton and in other places, the other is if any incels might transition for reasons relating to not finding sexual partners and believing that they would if they were seen as women.

Not sure who the ninjas are, but some, at least, seem to join all sorts of protests and view themselves as antifascist warriors. They may not have any one cause or support many causes or just like the idea of turning up to protest what others tell them is fascism. One of the people arrested in Brighton was earlier arrested in the context of a protest having nothing to do with women's rights or transgender rights, and if I remember correctly, another young man protesting at an earlier rally had a similar history of protesting against the treatment of migrants etc.

So they might be a diverse bunch of young men, mostly, who turn up at these rallies.

On the idea of incels transitioning for that very reason, I have never come across anything like a proper study on the question. There are some individuals who say online that they wanted to transition in order to become more attractive and more popular, but that's not necessarily the same as belonging to the incel movement.

Amazing how the police could spare two male officers to creepily follow a woman home “in case she breached the peace” but can’t spare any officers to intervene when a group of men attack a group of women.

The main difference seems to be no criminal offence was committed in the first instance, but in the second instance those men should at the least have been arrested for verbal assault.

Almost like the police aren’t much interested in crimes by men against women. Almost like it’s easier to intimidate a lone woman quietly walking home than it is to deal with a group of angry violent men.

It's been clear for many years now that the TRA agenda was bring misappropriated by a group with quite a different agenda. They saw a cause they could piggyback onto, which would give them a platform from which to spout their hatred of women under the guise of protection of another group, and to disseminate their misogyny to a broad audience and in doing so, legitimize it.

It's been terrifyingly effective. Prominent organizations like Stonewall have taken up that mantra, and attitudes toward women that would have been considered antediluvian even a decade ago are right back with a vengeance.

These attitudes, messages and campaigns are hurting the interests of women, and they're hurting those of trans people who simply want to co-exist with the rest of society in peace. But it's mostly women who have fought their linguistic contortionism, reduction of 'woman' to a dirty word and the definition 'adult human female' deemed hate speech, the infiltration of our spaces, putting us at increased risk from predatory males, the rape and death threats and threats to our livelihoods. Some old school transsexuals have done likewise, earning the ugly label of 'truscum' for their trouble.

Where are the other voices of trans people, particularly trans women (whose activists are most vocal about wanting to participate in women's spaces, sports and medical circumstances), saying 'not in my name?'

@MarieIVanArkleStinks I'm learning a lot today! Truscum (I found the definition on Urban Dictionary of all places):

A queer individual that holds the belief that you require gender dysphoria to identify as transgender.

This sort of symbolises the problem, transgender is a deliberately vague term, and campaigners don't want it limited to just gender dysphoria, which quite frankly is bizarre!

@nepeta Very true, there are two issues here Incels who attach themselves to TRA and Incels who transition.

Being a TRA doesn't require you to be transgender, and as such a group that hates women (Incels) finds an outlet for that in the TRA movement.

This article is hilarious!

I've seen this come up loads of several forums. There's quite the incel to transwoman pipeline.

Incels becoming transwomen, where "it's not a fetish" is a valid line. Queue incel perverts and voyeurs dressed as women have the right to abuse women and womens spaces.

The incel, transmaxx info feels like the piece I was missing to make sense of the black pampers thing. The transmaxx stuff on Reddit is the kind of thing I feel just shouldn't exist in real life, and yet..... I just keep getting disappointed, but maybe confirmation is needed to hit the bottom, to see how far it goes. I'm reeling a bit.

"Transmaxxing Manifesto (no 6)"
(they take this stuff seriously enough to have put this 73 page guide together)
archive.org/details/transmaxxing6

I agree with PP that there is a plenty of evidence of a Rent-A-Mob element involved in "trans rights" protests.

Trans ideology has also captured almost all of the anarchist/"anti-fascist" organisations, just as it has so many others on the left.

There are some GC anarchists - and they support KJK and SFW - but they are having to organise outside of the "anarchist mainstream", much as GC women are having to organise outside of "establishment" women's groups.

Interesting series of articles from 2018 by a UK GC anarchist:

"Accidental Death Of A Manarchist — The idiots guide to transgender ideology."
7 Oct 2018
Pt 1 — Tragic in theory and praxis.
One of the most disturbing trends that has arisen recently within the anarchist movement and the liberal left is what is generally termed ‘transgender ideology’. This collection of ideas has been subject to a lot of criticism, particularly from feminists. In this piece I am going to concentrate on how this transgender ideology has gained traction within certain sections of the left.
joepublic1.medium.com/accidental-death-of-a-manarchist-the-idiots-guide-to-transgender-ideology-9af4c1272d89

"3 Strikes and you’re out — Women’s Strike, Antifa and the Anti Fems."
10 Oct 2018
This article is going to be dashed off quickly, with hopefully a more in depth analysis as things develop.

It concerns the Feminist Antifascists Bloc Oppose the DFLA demo, on Oct 13th 2018.

It is another conflating trojan horse, but the disturbing development here is the involvement of the antifa boot boys
joepublic1.medium.com/3-strikes-and-youre-out-women-s-strike-antifa-and-the-anti-fems-3d3cb5bbb8c

"London Stalling — More Dispatches From The Scene …."
1 Dec 2018
The trans issue seems to have taken a back seat for the time being amongst the anarchist community. I think this is mainly due to the rise of Extinction Rebellion and the protest against the newly reconstituted and extremely right wing UK Independence Party (UKIP). These are the major causes du jour, although Extinction Rebellion seems to have as many detractors as supporters.
joepublic1.medium.com/london-stalling-more-dispatches-from-the-scene-bbd8ebebf3e9

"Queer anarchism" goes back a long way and integrates paedophilia into anarchist theory and activism:

"Queer theory - and what it means in extremis"
www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3355827-Queer-theory-and-what-it-means-in-extremis

This video is linked in that thread but it keeps getting banned from YouTube. There is at least one copy up now:

"Derrick Jensen: Anarchism and Queer Theory Jeopardy."

If that one disappears, there is a copy on the Internet Archive:
archive.org/details/derrick-jensen

Another prominent anarchist, Hakim Bey, not only advocated paedophilia but also invented the "Temporary Autonomous Zone" (if you were following developments in the USA - Seattle, Portland and Washington - during 2020 this might ring a bell):

Pedophilia and American Anarchism
by Robert P. Helms
Friday Jan 28th, 2005

There is an American anarchist named Peter Lamborn Wilson, who uses the pseudonym Hakim Bey for some of his writings. He is best known as the author of TAZ: The Temporary Autonomous Zone. I have never considered his work to be serious anarchist thought, but many others take a different view, and his work is available in at least a dozen languages. The issue I find worth discussing is that for over twenty years, Wilson/Bey has used anarchist arguments to promote pedophilia in his published work. This is no secret in North America, although his anarchist career is not in jeopardy.
www.indybay.org/newsitems/2005/01/28/17179561.php

Finally, "Pussy Riot" are routinely celebrated as brave women doing their thang but the story is neither so simple nor so heroic. In fact it is a sad story of women who call themselves "new feminists" being systematically degraded by sadistic, fetishistic men - anarchism as misogyny run riot:

"Pussy Riot: whose freedom, whose riot?"
20 Aug 2012
I found it suspicious that Pussy Riot was getting so much media attention, even for pseudo feminist standards. You can measure the degree of feminism of an action by how men react to it, and if men collectively cheer and celebrate it, then you can be pretty sure there’s something wrong about it, or that it doesn’t somehow support our liberation from men. And as far as I can recall, even the slutwalks didn’t get as much coverage or public appraisal. What was it that men liked so much about Pussy Riot?

Well, under closer inspection I discovered that the high level of coverage was related to – though indirectly – promoting men’s right to women’s sexual subordination and the pornification of our movement. The arrested women actually form part (and are victims of) a mixed anarchist group called “Voina” (meaning “war”), founded in 2007 by two men called Oleg Vorotnikov and Leonid Nikolaïev, who regularly engage the women in extreme and degrading women-hating pornography as part of their public “political stunts”.

. . . Voina’s president’s wife, dubbed “Vacuous Cunt With Inconceivably Huge Tits,” . . .
(anarchism is anti-misogyny?)

(WARNING:
The article describes in graphic detail some of the "extreme and degrading" acts Pussy Riot members were subjected to by their sadistic, male anarchist "comrades" and they are not for the faint-hearted.)
radfemworldnews.wordpress.com/2012/08/20/pussy-riot-whose-freedom-whose-riot/

"Antifa" are first and foremost anarchists before they are "anti-fascists" of any persuasion.

Is there any political movement run by men, from the far left to the far right, that does not co-opt women, whether for administrative drudgery, mopping up policy chaos or outright sexual slavery?

Transwomen usually say that anyone who says they are women are women. They don't get to say now that if some people behave badly while claiming to be women then they are not. It is either one or the other.

If the Black Pampers are going to be the white 'poster-boys' for the British Left, I'm not entirely sure that's going to be a great strategy.

Presenting themselves as homophobic and misogynistic twerps with a tendency to utter racist filth at every opportunity suggests that the British Left and 'progressive' political thought has run-out-of-steam and is floundering.

That it is getting difficult to distinguish between white male TRA's screaming at women and white male incels screaming at women suggests that both movements are exclusively for white males, with both attracting a few female 'collaborator/hangers-on'.

The obvious concern is that white males TRA's and white male incels converge into one body with shared ideals, including anti-semitism. White male supremacism might be able to hide in plain sight under the guise of being homophobic/pro-trans and consequently able to escape leftist censure.

The events and pictures from Brighton suggests that the convergence might already have happened.