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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

WPATH SOC8 now published- Eunuch chapter retained...

46 replies

rogdmum · 16/09/2022 07:47

The final version of SOC8 is out and amongst other things, the chapter on eunuchs has been retained (chapter 9). Surely the NHS must completely distance themselves from WPATH (particularly looking at you, NHS Scotland)

www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/26895269.2022.2100644

Susie Green and Mermaids are cited. Funny that Mermaids said the Cass Review was not their field just this week in court, but WPATH would appear to be.

Questioning parents are treated with great suspicion, including (when referring to hormones and surgery for adolescents):

“Helping youth and parent(s)/caregiver(s) work together on important gender care decisions is a primary goal. However, in some cases, parent(s)/ caregiver(s) may be too rejecting of their adoles- cent child and their child’s gender needs to be part of the clinical evaluation process. In these situations, youth may require the engagement of larger systems of advocacy and support to move

forward with the necessary support and care (Dubin et al., 2020).”

(S58)

The minimum ages for treatment have been removed, but I’m not convinced that’s much better as will allow providers room to lower and lower the age for the medical pathway.

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ImNotAnExpert · 16/09/2022 09:04

thanks for sharing, I've been waiting for this.

Absolutely unbelievable that this organisation is in any way informing our NHS healthcare. Unbelievable.

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ImNotAnExpert · 16/09/2022 09:05

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ImNotAnExpert · 16/09/2022 09:15

'Eunuch individuals are part of the population
of gender diverse people who experience gender
incongruence and may also seek gender-affirming
care. Like other transgender and gender diverse (TGD) individuals, eunuchs require access to affirming care to gain comfort with their gendered
self'

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ImNotAnExpert · 16/09/2022 09:16

'Eunuch individuals may seek medical or surgical
care (hormone suppression, orchiectomy,
and, in some cases, penectomy) to achieve physical,
psychological, or sexual changes (Wassersug
& Johnson, 2007). It is important all patients,
including both eunuchs and those seeking castration,
establish and maintain a relationship with
an HCP that is built upon trust and mutual
understanding. Given a lack of awareness of
eunuchs within the general medical community
and the fear among many individuals seeking
castration they will not be accepted, many do
not receive appropriate primary care and screening
tests (Jäggi et al., 2018). Increased awareness
and education among medical providers will help
address the need to be informed about the need
to include eunuchs in discussions of gender
diversity (Deutsch, 2016a).'

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ImNotAnExpert · 16/09/2022 09:19

'the greatest wealth of information
about contemporary eunuch-identified people is
found within the large online peer-support community
that congregates on sites such as the
Eunuch Archive (www.eunuch.org), which was
established in 1998. The moderators of this site
attempt to maintain both medical and historical
accuracy in its discussion forums, although there
is certainly misinformation as well.'

To reiterate, this website was investigated by Reduxx:

reduxx.info/top-trans-medical-association-collaborated-with-castration-child-abuse-fetishists/

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ImNotAnExpert · 16/09/2022 09:19

'Although not a specific diagnostic
category in the ICD or DSM, eunuch is a
useful construct as it speaks to the specifics of
eunuch experience while also connecting it to
the experience of gender incongruence more
broadly.'

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ImNotAnExpert · 16/09/2022 09:20

'Statements of Recommendations
9.1- We recommend health care professionals and other users of the Standards of Care 8th guidelines should apply the
recommendations in ways that meet the needs of eunuch individuals
9.2- We recommend health care professionals should consider medical intervention, surgical intervention, or both for eunuch
individuals when there is a high risk that withholding treatment will cause individuals harm through self-surgery, surgery by
unqualified practitioners, or unsupervised use of medications that affect hormones.
9.3- We recommend health care professionals who are assessing eunuch individuals for treatment have demonstrated competency
in assessing them.
9.4- We suggest health care professionals providing care to eunuch individuals include sexuality education and counseling.'

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ImNotAnExpert · 16/09/2022 09:31

And finally ...

'Like other gender diverse individuals, eunuch
individuals may be aware of their identity in
childhood or adolescence.'

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waterwitch · 16/09/2022 09:32

OMG, or they could just suggest treating the clear mental health issues that person is presenting 🙄
Wonder if they have any data on regret for this particular approach? Thought not!

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PriOn1 · 16/09/2022 09:37

Wow! There is no difference at all, in my opinion, between someone who wants an arm cut off and someone who wants their testicles cut off. Wanting healthy body parts removed is not any kind of identity. I seriously hope this will give doctors round the world pause. This is simply insanity.

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ImNotAnExpert · 16/09/2022 09:38

Sorry, all of those quotes above were taken from Chapter 9 on Eunuchs.

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rogdmum · 16/09/2022 09:45

There’s an awful lot in it that needs unpicked. Eg. is this encouraging vaginoplasty for the under 18s?

twitter.com/heterodorx/status/1570636535489499139?s=21&t=L-OLMgm6apjHSE03-BVNrw

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ImNotAnExpert · 16/09/2022 09:51

By suggesting benefits to 'vaginoplasty' in those under 18, without mentioning the fucking massive risks and drawbacks? You could say that.

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ImNotAnExpert · 16/09/2022 09:53

www.wales.nhs.uk/document/184390/info/

'This document was prepared by representatives of Gender Identity Clinics
(GICs) across England, at the request of the Department of Health, to provide
an outline of necessary gender services. The information in this guide is
primarily aimed at General Practitioners (GPs) but will also be of relevance to
other healthcare practitioners, NHS England, Clinical Commissioning Group
Commissioners and all users of gender services.
Clinical representatives from GICs in London, Nottingham, Leeds and
Sunderland met in April 2012 to agree the basics of a draft common protocol
based on best current NHS practice. An early draft of this document was
shared with all UK gender clinics and specialists for their input. Following
that, trans people and organisations representing them were given an
extensive opportunity to comment on the draft. This document is also
informed by the seventh edition of the World Professional Association of
Transgender Health (WPATH) Standards of Care and later drafts of the Royal
College of Psychiatrists Standards of Care for Treatment of Gender
Dysphoria.'

So, will the GICs in England be incorporating WPATH's new recommendations on treatment of Eunuchs?

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ImNotAnExpert · 16/09/2022 09:54

www.wales.nhs.uk/document/184390/info/

NHS wales linking to WPATH.

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Justme56 · 16/09/2022 09:56

It shouldn’t, but it still does, shock me what people want to do to their bodies. ‘Penile preserving vaginoplasty’ - (in the NB section and probably elsewhere)???

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SudocremOnEverything · 16/09/2022 09:57

ImNotAnExpert · 16/09/2022 09:20

'Statements of Recommendations
9.1- We recommend health care professionals and other users of the Standards of Care 8th guidelines should apply the
recommendations in ways that meet the needs of eunuch individuals
9.2- We recommend health care professionals should consider medical intervention, surgical intervention, or both for eunuch
individuals when there is a high risk that withholding treatment will cause individuals harm through self-surgery, surgery by
unqualified practitioners, or unsupervised use of medications that affect hormones.
9.3- We recommend health care professionals who are assessing eunuch individuals for treatment have demonstrated competency
in assessing them.
9.4- We suggest health care professionals providing care to eunuch individuals include sexuality education and counseling.'

Don’t under any circumstances treat this a serious psychiatric issues and take steps to prevent or mitigate harm. Schedule some surgery and castrate them lest they do it themselves. Possibly suggest some counselling - but not in a way that might not affirm their identity. Obviously.


And these people claim to care about people struggling with these issues.

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nepeta · 16/09/2022 15:58

Who are the people in WPATH? What percentage medical experts, what percentage activists etc? Are they appointed by medical organisations in their countries or self-selected? Are governments involved in that selection? In other words, what respect should we have for this organisation?

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TheClogLady · 16/09/2022 16:06

Justme56 · 16/09/2022 09:56

It shouldn’t, but it still does, shock me what people want to do to their bodies. ‘Penile preserving vaginoplasty’ - (in the NB section and probably elsewhere)???

Don’t look up the photos!

surely the NHS must now look at this and go ‘WPATH is now Incompatible with our values’.

How do we make that happen?

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ImNotAnExpert · 16/09/2022 16:10

nepeta · 16/09/2022 15:58

Who are the people in WPATH? What percentage medical experts, what percentage activists etc? Are they appointed by medical organisations in their countries or self-selected? Are governments involved in that selection? In other words, what respect should we have for this organisation?

89 members in the UK - mostly medics. Many therapists, several NHS employees.

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ImNotAnExpert · 16/09/2022 16:17

Dr Walter Bouman:

'Walter serves the World Professional Association of Transgender Health (WPATH) as President-Elect and Executive Board Member; he is an Executive Board Member of the European Professional Association of Transgender Health (EPATH).'

www.nottinghamshirehealthcare.nhs.uk/meet-the-team-gender

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ImNotAnExpert · 16/09/2022 16:18

'Prof. Arcelus is the co-chair of the Standards of Care version 8 (SOC-8) developed by the World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH). He works closely with Trans organisations, including Mermaids, and Gender Intelligence and Translearning partnership. Professor Arcelus has over 150 publications, including books and chapters. He is an Associate Editor of the International Journal of Transgender Health.'

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rogdmum · 16/09/2022 16:22

When WPATH were talking about SOC8 during drafting, they said it would be the first evidence based guidelines they had produced.

Yeah right.

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TheClogLady · 16/09/2022 16:23

LOL

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ImNotAnExpert · 16/09/2022 16:32

rogdmum · 16/09/2022 16:22

When WPATH were talking about SOC8 during drafting, they said it would be the first evidence based guidelines they had produced.

Yeah right.

So ... that means the NHS have been using advice that up until now has been not evidence based?

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