La Leche League's "Erasing of Mothers" Saga Continues

[notidentifying22]

One More Thing is the latest and reportedly last post from mothersformothers.com (MfM) explaining how La Leche League's draconian search for the identity of the writers on the MfM website has become too high of a risk to continue publishing. There is a new site discussing the issues that MfM is encouraging people to check out. Lucy Leader Substack. All of the MfM articles will find a home on the archives of this substack.

@TheClogLady Sure elections can be won even though a lot of an organisations' members don't engage. What is your suggestion for an alternative then? Bearing in mind you don't know what engagement there is across the world in LLLI Board elections, and you're unlikely to find out on mumsnet.

That’s exactly why I asked.

are you going to answer my question? Or just berate me for asking it on Mumsnet?

How many individuals cast votes in these elections?

"I'm so happy they failed."

No one wins when mothers and babies lose.

"LLLI policy and approach reflect that of the majority of DCEs. What you are doing, in seeking to enforce a minority view on a global organization, is undemocratic."

A clarifying comment about democracies, since the writer brought this topic into the discussion:

"Majority rule is limited in order to protect minority rights, because if it were unchecked it probably would be used to oppress persons holding unpopular views. Unlimited majority rule in a democracy is potentially just as despotic as the unchecked rule of an autocrat or an elitist minority political party."
www.annenbergclassroom.org/glossary_term/majority-rule-and-minority-rights/

This misunderstanding about how democratic republic governments work is common. The disastrous effects of direct democracies are a well known fact. It leads to a tyranny of the majority. LLLI is not a State, however if the writer is referring to how to handle minority opinions and rights in an organization that seeks to make decisions democratically, it must always be weighed against the rights of the minority.

In the US, a democratic republic, there is a Bill of Rights that was added to the Constitution so that the majority could not just ignore the minority. There is a separation of powers and a representational form of government.
Now if the writer is positing that gender critical Leaders are in the minority, well I would like to request to know where that data is coming from. Could it be shared, please?

Regardless, if those Leaders who so vociferously are objecting to the inclusivity policy are in the majority or minority, the Board would be wise to try to come to an understanding of the issue from a point of view other than their own.

Take a look at the MfM website and you will see literally thousands of people have visited the site. If it was all "misinformation" as the writer claimed, then I would imagine the site would not be so well read. I see many articles quoting LLLI's website directly. "Misinformation" may just be someone else's thoughts and opinions. The underlying message when using that word is that someone is lying and I don't think that will ever help LLLI to heal from this divisive mixing of causes. We must stop demeaning those who we don't agree with and get on with the issue of healing.

Agreed. There doesn't ever seem to be an answer from the LLLI Board to the question of men attempting to "breastfeed". In the past, LLLI has be meticulous in using research when sharing information about breastfeeding. I am saddened that that seems to been abandoned when it comes to the issue of the safety of a man breastfeeding a woman's baby. What about the baby's health and mental well being? What about the bonding between a mother and her baby that LLL has triumphed for over 6 decades?

"I believe the Leaders who ran that website actively tried to damage LLL because, among other actions, they called on people not to donate to LLLI (LLLI relies on donations to be able to support Leaders and run programs),
they sought to exert pressure to reverse democratically agreed policies, and to stoke fear and moral panic."

Yes, it is a sad story, but not unexpected when free and open discussion were not allowed. When Leaders were silenced, de-platformed, and withdrawn from committees, and yes, even disaccredited, it became apparent that the policy changes were fraught with impossible expectations for Leaders—especially those not in Western woke counties who would be in grave danger if they were to enact these language changes locally. After all, LLLI is an international organization and should be careful of putting any of its Leaders into dangerous situations.

The Board states that Leaders know their own area well and should make decisions based on this knowledge, but I have only seen disparaging remarks on LLL discussions when "inclusive" language is not being used. I wonder what the Board thought might happen?

Maybe being open to discussion before these actions had to occur would have been a better plan of action. It's not too late to admit there have been errors in the policy decisions. It's time to reach out to the other side rather than trying to "win" an argument.

"How many individuals cast votes in these elections?"
Yes, this would be good information to share.

What are “nursing parents”? Mothers? Men who identify as women? Trans men? Why not just use the most accurate words for communication— breastfeeding mother?

cases recently discussed in Leader spaces involve cis men

There's no such thing as a "cis man". MTF trans people are as male as any man. There aren't two sexes of women, a woman is simply the term for an adult human female, and everyone who has ever produced ova is female.

@notidentifying22 Yes, I believe 'gender critical' views are in a minority in LLL and most Leaders just want to support those families who need their help - regardless of how a parent identifies. Most DCEs have a policy of inclusion very similar to LLLI's - are you suggesting that not only is LLLI a dictatorship, but most DCEs are too and hold positions not supported by most of their Leaders? Some DCEs have held votes about their approaches to inclusion which large numbers of Leaders engaged in, so we do know that at least some DCEs are representative of their Leaders (and before you ask, it's not my place to share those numbers here - ask your DCE admins if you like).

And of course LLLI takes account of minority views - every policy change goes through a rigorous process including every DCE - if you as a Leader are not being made aware of discussions and proposed changes take that up with your DCE administrators. Trying to represent LLLI as tyrannical against the news of the state murder of Mahsa Amini, and encroaching fascism around the world is really offensive. Not getting your way does not mean you're being ignored or mistreated. LLL upholds the rights of babies to be breastfed/receive human milk - and that means including and supporting all breastfeeding mothers/nursing parents. That's a beautiful, not a terrible, thing and I think it's very sad you can't see it.

You say <We must stop demeaning those who we don't agree with and get on with the issue of healing.> - well, I'd love that. Stopping protesting policies that help us support more nursing parents, and stopping defaming the organization and its representatives would be great places to start.

“Trying to represent LLLI as tyrannical against the news of the state murder of Mahsa Amini, and encroaching fascism around the world is really offensive.”

Wow. OK I can see you are not able or unwilling to discuss the questions being brought forth about the safety of mothers and babies or the research surrounding male breastfeeding. Instead you are accusing me of fascism. It would be a better conversation if you didn’t make such assumptions. It shows a true unwillingness to understand others and the reason why so many Leaders are resigning. By demonizing people who have different world ideas than yourself, you reveal your limited world view. It is sad that we can’t have a respectful debate without the personal attacks. This is what’s wrong with LLLI Board today. There really is nothing more to say except I wish you well and hope you can come to peace about this issue in time.

It’s such a shame. I was never a LLL member but I did peer support training and volunteered at the breast feeding group at my local sure start for almost three years.

All our handout sheets were purchased in from LLL and I found them invaluable back then. I absolutely loved my personal copy of the Womanly Art of Breastfeeding (my youngest had a PTT and I had to use an SNS to get feeding established. It was a hellish time and formula wasn’t an option due to CMPI. She dropped right off the bottom of the growth chart and it was only the excellent support of our Infant Feeding Coordinator that prevented me falling into complete despair).

I absolutely cringe in horror at ‘chest feeding’ (the chest is the thoracic cavity in which the lungs are found) and many of our group attendees had English as a second language so all this Newspeak will make it so much harder to actually get on with the task of supporting women.

Hopefully a new, sensible, plain speaking, woman focussed org will step into the gap, as sadly, once the social justice revolution gets a foothold into a previously mission focussed org, the whole thing invariably disappears up it’s own arse in a never ending purity spiral, rigidly enforced by the self appointed language police.

Well said, @TheClogLady

@Interloper7 you have been very happy to dismiss issues raised both here and by MfM, I think the main one is supporting transwomen attempting to ‘breast’ feed babies. As you write, your position unfurls:

First ‘nothing to see here, move along please’ ie no debate,

next ‘just because it’s on MfM, or other reports of personal experience, doesn’t mean it’s true’,

then ‘it’s only a tiny number’,

finally, ‘this is a beautiful thing which you should support’ and in any case ‘your woman space has been captured, so there’s nothing you can do’.

interesting - and do I take it that you are hold a senior position in LLLI?