I’m trans and I fully support JKR AND disagree with the eradication of womens spaces

[JPWG2450]

I may get flames for posting, here of all places, but have found there is just nowhere else to have this view.

I’ve lurked on MN for many years, occasionally post or contribute to threads, and I haven’t name changed. It’ll be a long one so please bear with me.

So, for background I’m a mid 30s female to male transsexual
began my transition at 18
have had full gender reassignment surgery and am considered for all intents and purposes ‘Male’

HOWEVER

i am fully aware that I have not, and cannot ‘change’ my sex.
I can (and have) cosmetically change my body to make it appear more masculine, but I’m fully aware that it’s still essentially a female body that has been surgically altered.

I can (and have) get my legally sex changed on paperwork, I can get a new birth certificate
but I’m aware that it doesn’t change my sex at birth, or on any document prior to the legal change
nor does it change my chromosomes or DNA

When I began my transition, the world wasn’t the woke place it is now, most trans people were much older than me, you couldn’t readily access gender identity services and most GPs hadn’t even heard of them.There was no provision for children to be diagnosed or treated for gender related issues. You quite rightly had to wait until you were an adult to make choices about your life/body.

Whilst I don’t regret my choices, and am far happier in my life. I also recognise that a lot of my childhood was traumatic, abusive and extremely stereotypical.
I do not rule out that had I been allowed to express the more ‘masculine’ aspects of my personality, I may have felt more comfortable in my own skin.

The world has changed however,
and though I sound ‘belong’ to the trans community, I do not.
for several reasons

1. Because I no longer feel the need to label my gender, or sexuality,
2. Because largely the trans community is toxic and if you don’t fit their narrow minded (ironic I know) view of what it means to be trans, you are unwelcome.

I did what I did, I changed my paperwork, I changed my body, i reinvented myself in to someone I felt more comfortable as, but I did it quietly, privately and without forcing my views down anyones throat.

Once I began to present as make, I stopped using female only spaces, because It wasn’t right for me to do so.
I could not demand to be validated as a man, and then chose the female aspects of life I preferred.

As someone who has been assaulted, both prior to and after my transition, I recognise everyone’s right to feel safe.
I recognise that in sexual terms, a trans woman with a penis is just as much of a threat as a man with a penis. Likewise, a trans man who has had surgery, or has had body altering hormones etc.

I do not believe single sex spaces should be eradicated, or that self identifying as another gender gives anyone the right to access spaces they otherwise would be denied access to.

i can understand that as a trans woman you may feel uncomfortable in a male space, as there will always be others who view you as a threat and attack,
I faced this myself prior to surgery when I felt unable to use female spaces but was concerned about my safety in male spaces

i chose to use alternative facilities, family or disabled changing, I chose to pee or change at home. I did not force myself or my opinions in to other peoples spaces.

i fully acknowledge that WOMEN menstruate.
not people
I menstruated, until I was given MALE hormones.
Saying that women menstruate, give birth, breastfeed etc, isn’t disrespectful or triggering it’s just a biological fact.

I use male pronouns, because legally my sex is male and if you saw me, you’d naturally use male pronouns.
I don’t announce them, I don’t demand anyone else use them,
nor do I demand to know anyone else’s.
i feel that it’s discriminatory to include pronouns on things like emails and name badges etc.
it implies that someone’s gender is relevant when I’m most cases it is not.

if I have a query with a company knowing the pronouns of the individual I’m communicating with doesn’t answer my questions or fix my problem.

What it does do is allow misogyny within organisations but allowing pronouns to dictate how someone is treated.

and finally, as a huge Harry Potter fan I’ve always loved JKR
so when I first started hearing that she has said trans people didn’t exist and she was transphobic etc etc

i didn’t post it all over social media, or. In my Harry Potter merch.
i READ what she had said.

and she was RIGHT
and in no way being homophobic, she literally acknowledged that genuine trans people were not who she was talking about.

Yes, There is a small percentage of people who are truly trans, have dysphasia etc, which after all is a mental illness.

but the vast majority now, are young boys who are effeminate, young women who are butch, they are gay, lesbian, bisexual, androgynous, abused, or unwell people (often children) who instead of being accepted and learning to accept themselves, or being treated and given support for genuine mental health issues, are being sold the lie that they are trans, non binary etc, that they are marginalised, and discriminated against

Theyre ‘coming out’ to fit in
Their normal bodily changes are being medically prevented because they prefer playing with Lego to barbie
Or they like ballet and not football so they must be trans, because changing their gender will solve all of their issues.

She was right to stand up for women
Right to say sex cannot be changed

Next, I heard ‘JKR wrote a book about a trans woman who kills women’
so I READ the book, which isn’t remotely about a murderous trans woman.
in fact her previous book did have a minor trans character, and she treated it very sensitively

Then recent ‘JRKs new book is about a woman who is persecuted and killed for being transphobic’

so guess what? I read that one too,
and transphobia is mentioned in passing once,
The murdered individual is actually said to be ableist, and that isn’t why they were killed.

I despair at the world we live in
im all for equality
But it isn’t equality to expect special treatment
it isn’t equality to eradicate someone else’s rights or safety in favour of your own

it isn’t equality to shove your beliefs in someone else’s face and then tell them they’re wrong because their beliefs differ

But
i can’t voice any of this
because if I don’t jump on the bandwagon and create uproar because someone’s ‘erasing my identity’ by stating facts,

Then my identity will be invalidated by the very community to which I am supposed to belong

Thank you. Thank you for being reasonable and rational and for respecting women. I'm sorry that you haven't found the TQ+ community a support.

I'm a non gender-conforming lesbian. I know so many older lesbians similar to me and we live in the knowledge that if we were children now we'd be in danger of being encouraged down the transition route. I'm sorry you couldn't find a way of being comfortable in your body as a non-gender-conforming woman, but you sound like the kind of transman I would be happy to know.

I know it sounds counterintuitive, but you would be welcome in the LGB Alliance as a trans supporter.

I love your post OP. Thank you for sharing it. Agree with everything you have said ❤️

Thank you so much for this post. It's great to know that you are happy where you are now and that you hold these views. It's no surprise really that you are FTM rather than MTF.

Very well said, OP. I'm sorry you had such a difficult childhood. It's a great credit to you that you can see this issue so clearly in spite of what you've been through.

Thank you for sharing. I wonder what you would say to a teenage girl who was social transitioning and planning to go on to surgery? How can we help those females who 'think' they are trans so that there are more resources for those who are 'genuine trans'?
Don't feel you need to answer by the way!

Thank you for posting

@FemaleAndLearning

I would love to talk to youngsters (or even older people) who are struggling right now, but I suspect my views wouldn’t be welcomed by most organisations who help trans people.

To anyone, I’d say, take your time.
Don’t rely on doctors, counsellors, friends etc to tell you who you are or what will make you make/female. By all means seek out support, get a counsellor, talk things through but use it as a tool to explore yourself

I’d tell them to let go of every stereotype.

Personally, I felt the only way to be accepted as make way to be very masculine, drink beer, watch football… and whilst ultimately I ended up where I wanted to be with my life; it took a lot more self discovery after my transition to unpick who I really was and who I’d felt pressure in to being to ‘male’

I’d them that they needed to consider the future.

At 21 when I started hormones I dated women exclusively, and assumed if I ever wanted children my partner would carry the child and a donor would be used.

So the fact that hormones would stop periods and damage my own eggs was of no concern to me.

At 25 when I had a full hysterectomy and was offered the option to freeze eggs nothing had changed,

A few years on, I had done further soul searching, and was in a relationship with a man

And it was at that point that it hit me that I’d given up my chance to have a biological child with barely a second thought.

I’d tell them to fully research things like surgery, I would never discourage anyone

But if I’m honest, I envisioned having a functioning male body, and as good as my surgery was, it’s a pale imitation to a truly male body in look, and function

I’d remind them that transition can only help with gender dysphoria, it isn’t a cure

And it isn’t going to solve every other issue in your life,

It’s very easy to get caught up on that doing a certain thing, acting a certain way will solve everything, and it just won’t.

The trouble is. It isn’t hard to figure out what the doctors, psychologists etc want to hear.

Ridiculous that you should feel wary of trans organisations because you're not the right kind of trans! I can't say you're necessarily wrong though.

I've enjoyed your posts. I'm going to start on JKR's 'grownup' books. I've been putting it off because I never got on with Harry Potter. I've said before she's my favourite writer who's not my favourite writer.

All the best op, hope to see you around on the boards.

I would be interested to know if you think trans involves buying into stereotypes- dress , behaviour , and what you think the advantages are for women who do the things you have described so clearly. Have you seen advantages yourself in how the world treats you now? I would disagree that transmen are generally as dangerous to women as men are, what makes you think that?

@Ramblingnamechanger

I wouldn’t say that trans men are necessarily as dangerous to women as men are, obviously biology plays it’s part, I just don’t like to assume that a trans man would never be a threat to a woman, in the same way I wouldn’t assume that women aren’t dangerous to other women or to men, we all have the ability to harm, although I do agree that statistically men are more likely to harm women, particularly in regards to violent or sexual crimes.

I do feel that being trans can entail buying in to stereotypes, in the same way that being male/female can.
As I mentioned, I felt an enormous pressure to present as very masculine, to have certain hobbies and beliefs etc.

Having known some trans women, the ones I’ve spoken with have often felt the same, that they need to be overly feminine to be accepted. Although of course everyone has different experiences.

I felt also that some (not all) trans people had very rigid ideas of what your transition should involve. You must do A then B then C

You must have XYZ surgeries.
Not everyone has surgery, not everyone had all of the available surgeries etc. There are some who believe if you don’t have exactly what they did, then you aren’t really trans.

But the biggest difference I’ve noticed is the way society as a whole treats people based on their perceived gender.

There is a societal divide with the genders, and make privilege absolutely does exist.

As an 18 year old women, I would frequently be ignored by bar staff etc in favour of serving the man behind me. I would feel unsafe walking at night, I’d have things shouted at me by random men. I’d be sexualised and objectified. If I were on a chat room or daring sight I’d get tonnes of messages, mostly sexual.

At a social event I’d be expected to sit in the kitchen with the women and if I were to attempt to involve myself in a male dominated conversation I’d not be taken very seriously.

I changed my name, cut my hair, bound my chest and moved to a new city. I was fortunate that I didn’t look overly feminine so I ‘passed’ very well.

Suddenly, I didn’t feel threatened by men. I wasn’t having random things shouted at me, I wasn’t getting sexualised messages online

And I’d be expected to stand around the BBQ at social gatherings and talk about football even if I wasn’t interested.

I also found the way a lot of (again not all) men talked about women was vulgar, objectifying and just made my skin crawl. If they slept with 20 people they were celebrated, but if their girlfriend had done the same, she was promiscuous and open to being shamed.

But, I found most of those things out because I lived as my perceived gender.

So I was accepted as such

Whereas I’ve witnessed a lot of trans people who build their entire identity around that label, only have trans friends, only go to trans events, only talk about their transition

And they’ve felt excluded by wider society and unsafe,

They’re actually excluding themselves from
wider society, but blooming everyone else for it

Welcome to the heretical viper pit, OP.

I hope that you'll be able to find community among us.

Welcome to the board and thank you for your honest posts.

Really thoughtful posts OP, glad you’ve posted.

It does not surprise me from the style of your posts and your considered engagement with questions that you’re a transman, therefore socialised as a girl/woman. The contrast between that and my experience of many transwomen posters who breeze in here with a “I’m a TW who is going to pretend to understand your opinions and then tell you all why you’re wrong” is…notable.

It's really interesting to hear your experience of how differently the world treats you as a man and as a woman, you sound thoughtful and intelligent. I'm sorry that you don't feel supported by the trans community, that must be hard. I suspect though that there are probably many people who do feel the same as you but are, understandably, also afraid to speak out. I do feel that gender ideology extremists are seriously undermining tolerance towards trans people which is so unfair. I hope you find this a welcoming space.

Your post about escaping from the unwanted male gaze, male attention, male condescension and ultimately (from males) misogyny, threatening manner, violence and being very scared..... while my life has been different to yours I can recognise parallels all the through your description of what it means to grow up female in a man's world.

I'm just so sorry that you felt transition was the right (only) way for you to escape. I hope that you can make your new life work for you. Thank you for posting.

A really interesting account OP. I hope that you continue to make the best life for you moving forward.

Thank you for your kind and thoughtful posts. I wish you all the best with your life.

Op you have made my day, finally a trans person who does not need to shout from the rooftops about their sexuality or 'rights'
Who understands the very valid points about womens spaces needing to remain protected.

I salute you. thank you and l sincerely hope that you are truly content now.

it's noticeable that the OP was born female and so had had that experience to draw on

Thank you for your very thoughtful posts. One thing that is clear from your posts is that you have a lot of empathy and that you see things from different angles. All too often this seems to be missing from the debate.

Just : thank you for your lovely thoughtful post.

OP. I hope that you know that you are not alone. We occasionally do have other transioned females post on this board with similar opinions.

I hope that maybe they will read this and add their voices too.

But I hope you might also spend more time here and add your perspective on many threads. I realise though that it might be difficult. It might open you to further comments from the community you already feel disassociated from.

I am still wondering why you expected to be flamed. Because usually the posts that get push back are those who seek to shame posters on this board for prioritising the needs of all female’s. Or those posts that start off ‘questioning’ but within two more posts are clearly posted with the intention of denigrating posters on this board (we have had some doozies of that type in the past).

I suspect no flaming will be aimed at your posts from people who seek to understand your point of view. Only from those who seek to punish you for not following the narrow line of acceptable narrative about trans experiences. And I hope that those posts will not appear on this thread.

Worth bearing in mind that many of the loudest 'TRA' voices in the genderist movement are not themselves trans people. Look at the current case against the LGBA, for example - brought by Susie Green, the Belinda Woman and Jo Maugham. All of whom are straight (as far as I know) and not trans. And remember Mermaids' employee Helen Islam, a straight woman, took Miranda Yardley- a transwoman - to court for 'transphobia'.

This isn't 'trans people v women'. It's a bunch of people invested in pushing gender stereotypes as a new quasi religious movement. Against women.

Many trans people feel exactly the same as the OP and are seeing their lives being used as collateral in this effort to strip away the rights of women.

There have always been trans people who are wholly supportive of women and safeguarding; they face the fiercest criticism and attack from the TRAs.

@JPWG2450
And I feel so sad that you are unable to conceive and have children, also that you are disappointed with your transitioned body.

OP I respect the decision you took to transition as an adult and I appreciate your thoughtful posts and attitude.

You describe experiencing a world with oppressive gender stereotypes, and your solution, taken as an adult, helped you.

I have two children who don't conform to gender stereotypes and as such I fear they are at risk of being told they are trans (by other kids, by the TV, by well meaning teachers, by organisations that come into school, by youth groups, by young adult fiction etc).

Am I reasonable, in your eyes, to want to try and stop this from happening? I want to make sure my children feel acceptable just as they are, and empowered to push back against the regressive stereotypes. Physical health is also extremely important to me.

Does this make you feel that I harbour bad intentions towards you and the choices you made? Because this is what I keep hearing. That I should not see having a trans child as something to try and avoid. To try and avoid it is to say that I don't believe trans people are "valid".

Personally I don't see it like this. I have ptsd and have to advocate for myself because of it. I believe I deserve considerations because of it and my experiences are part of me and I suppose I've made my life meaningful on the back of them. But I'd do anything to prevent my children suffering from trauma.