Helen Joyce on Jordan Peterson's podcast

[DuckInAPuddle]

Just saw on Twitter that Jordan Peterson has interviewed Helen Joyce for the latest episode of his podcast. Just listening to it now, so can't really comment yet. There doesn't seem to be a thread on this yet, so thought I'd share the link in case anyone else is interested.

I have not rtft but wanted to say, thank you very much OP for posting this discussion. I have just finished listening. I thought that between them a great deal about what is at the heart of ‘gender identity’ ideology
was eloquently explained and rebutted.
I think this is the clearest exposition as a discussion that I have ever come across.

I did not know much about Jordan Peterson before, but was impressed by his reasoning and powers of expression even though he has a dominating and voluble manner in a way. In fact he comes across as passionate as much as anything. Helen Joyce’s quietly reasoned but equally sharp arguments complemented his way of presenting ideas.
I shall definitely listen to their other joint podcasts on this subject.

pattihews · 13/09/2022 22:29
I was going along with it and thinking that JP was talking a lot of sense until he started on about what women really need/ want — marriage, family, children, work yada yada yada. I'm one of those women who never wanted children and have lived independently (even within relationships). JP can't help it. He understands the position of women better now than he did, but his insistence that marriage and children make women happy loses me and I can't get beyond that.

I understand the point you are making about what he said, but personally understood it differently from you. I saw this as meaning is that the idea that the most important thing that gives value to a woman is a successful career, and her physical attributes, is not ultimately enough. (I took it that of course there may be exceptions.)

Related to the point about male/female negative emotion from puberty onwards, I’ve just listened to another podcast which went into this (the guest has a book coming out) and it went some way into the reasons for this, both biological and social.

The podcast is called ‘Sorry Not Sorry’ and the guest was Donna Jackson Nakazawa. I hope she does some more interviews as I got the impression there was quite a lot left to explore.

podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/alyssa-milano-sorry-not-sorry/id1460720864?i=1000579892472

I've just tried listening to that and it's an aural assault and so ruddy American and noisy and self-publicising it's given me a headache. Those shrill voices and upward inflections detract from the serious content. I know as a feminist I shouldn't be saying that and I'm sorry, but it's unpleasant to listen to.