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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

"Hate Speech" on MumsNet

120 replies

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 10/09/2022 11:18

Has anyone else noticed that when we report a post, one of the buttons to give a reason for the report is now "Hate Speech"? I have raised this on Site Stuff because I find the term really disturbing. And I'm raising it here because isn't this the term that's used by the police to harrass gender critical women?

OP posts:
RufusthefIoraImissingreindeer · 12/09/2022 10:15

I reported something under hate speech the other day, I was reporting it anyway and was positive that it would be deleted no matter what the reason was...I did say that hate was a strong word 😀

It was regarding sexual orientation

Whatsthepointofmosquitos · 12/09/2022 10:16

DrBlackbird · 10/09/2022 11:53

Shame that misogyny wasn’t ruled to be hate speech. Come to think of it, who gets to decide as to what and what not constitutes hate speech?

This.

The current position is that it’s no crime to be hateful towards women simply because they are women, but it is a crime to be hateful towards a trans person because they’re trans, or a gay person because they’re gay.

So basically transwomen and gay men can pour hatred on women and anything nasty we say back is an arrestable offence. 😕

Six women are killed every hour by men around the world. No other group is as vulnerable or as abused as women. But it’s no crime to be hateful to women, apparently.

RufusthefIoraImissingreindeer · 12/09/2022 10:18

Ooh I saw that one...did it go then?

RufusthefIoraImissingreindeer · 12/09/2022 10:19

Where did my quote go, that was regarding the heterosexual disappointment post

Ereshkigalangcleg · 12/09/2022 10:24

The current position is that it’s no crime to be hateful towards women simply because they are women, but it is a crime to be hateful towards a trans person because they’re trans, or a gay person because they’re gay.

This.

WiseUpJanetWeiss · 12/09/2022 10:30

Discovereads · 11/09/2022 22:59

Hate Speech is well defined. It is the saying/posting of hateful and prejudiced content against an individual, group or community about their race, religion, disability, sexual orientation or gender identity. It can take the form of derogatory, demonising and dehumanising statements, threats, identity-based insults, pejorative terms and slurs.

Is there a reason you have omitted sex from this list?

maddy68 · 12/09/2022 10:35

Hate speech is a crime.

A report button for that is on all social media.

Ofcourseshecan · 12/09/2022 10:37

WiseUpJanetWeiss · 12/09/2022 10:30

Is there a reason you have omitted sex from this list?

Yes.

ArabellaScott · 12/09/2022 10:37

Is it, maddy? Or is hate crime a speech?

FWIW, 'hate' crimes are an aggravator, 'hate' is not a crime in itself.

ArabellaScott · 12/09/2022 10:38

'Hate crime is defined as ‘any criminal offence which is perceived, by the victim or any other person, to be motivated by hostility or prejudice towards someone based on a personal characteristic.’ There are five centrally monitored strands of hate crime:

race or ethnicity

religion or beliefs

sexual orientation

disability

transgender identity'

www.gov.uk/government/statistics/hate-crime-england-and-wales-2017-to-2018

ArabellaScott · 12/09/2022 10:38

Hot takes like maddy's are exactly why 'hate crime' is such bad law.

Fizzynonsense · 12/09/2022 10:39

In relation to the comment about reporting anti-Catholic hate speech:

12 years ago, around the time of the pope’s visit to the U.K., I would have reported loads of online comments for hate speech but I was shocked by the level of anti-Catholicism being whipped up by Peter Tatchell and co.

There was a public debate about the Pope’s visit at a venue in Red Lion Square where the atmosphere was febrile and apparently terrifying for any Catholics who were there.

It spurred the initiative I was a part of, Catholic Voices, where we attempted to put forward the church’s case in the public square and media in a reasonable fashion. It was also the start of the period of prolonged trolling threats and abuse because people wanted to try to dispel any image I had of being reasonable or nice.

We didn’t ask to ban people for hate speech, we just tried to counter the narrative.

12 years ago I was outraged and upset by the level of naked anti-Catholic prejudice and bigotry that was out there. I couldn’t believe people could be so nasty and ignorant and did worry about society turning virulently anti-Christian. I still get a bit irked by the idea that being a mainstream Catholic who does believe all the tough stuff, makes you either a fundamentalist (sigh that’s a specific theological term) or a hard-right fascist. Catholicism doesn’t sit neatly in the Western political left-right praxis and a lot of Catholic social teaching is far more left-leaning.

These days, I’m hardened to hate speech and don’t find it helpful to try to have it banned. I learned that most reasonable and intelligent people can see it for what it is and can counter it with their own narratives, including atheists! There was just a brief moment with the ‘skeptics’ when things felt a little out of hand, but these moments are cyclical.

That said, I feel very much for young Catholics who are students and in the workplace. They do very much have to keep their heads down and mouths shut in today’s society.

Sorry derailed a bit.

TLDR: hate speech is counter-productive in a liberal Western society. Let people see it for what it is and counter it. And MNHQ could always interject on a thread. Only the worst slurs (the n word, the f word etc) and threats of violence and wishing an entire group of people didn’t exist, that should be removed.

TheBiologyStupid · 12/09/2022 10:40

ArabellaScott · 12/09/2022 10:38

'Hate crime is defined as ‘any criminal offence which is perceived, by the victim or any other person, to be motivated by hostility or prejudice towards someone based on a personal characteristic.’ There are five centrally monitored strands of hate crime:

race or ethnicity

religion or beliefs

sexual orientation

disability

transgender identity'

www.gov.uk/government/statistics/hate-crime-england-and-wales-2017-to-2018

Why the fuck doesn't that list match the nine actual protected characteristics? "Transgender identity" indeed.

ArabellaScott · 12/09/2022 10:44

same on cps:

www.cps.gov.uk/crime-info/hate-crime

Because it's not the Equality Act, I guess. I don't know, I can't see that this law was carefully thought through tbh

ArabellaScott · 12/09/2022 10:45

Ha: 'There is no legal definition of hostility so we use the everyday understanding of the word which includes ill-will, spite, contempt, prejudice, unfriendliness, antagonism, resentment and dislike.'

ArabellaScott · 12/09/2022 10:45

You heard it here first - 'unfriendliness' is a crime.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 12/09/2022 10:48

The whole of Mumsnet is on very dodgy ground then!

Ereshkigalangcleg · 12/09/2022 10:48

And everywhere else!

TheBiologyStupid · 12/09/2022 10:49

Because it's not the Equality Act, I guess. I don't know, I can't see that this law was carefully thought through tbh

You'd think that the lists characteristics that it is illegal to discriminate against would be the place to start.

You heard it here first - 'unfriendliness' is a crime.

Thanks, Arabella - that fact totally encapsulates my misgivings about hate speech.

ArabellaScott · 12/09/2022 10:49

Steady, Eresh, I think I may detect a note of resentment in your tone!

Ereshkigalangcleg · 12/09/2022 10:50

Please don't report me Arabella

ArabellaScott · 12/09/2022 10:51

I won't so long as you are extra KIND to me Eresh.

TheBiologyStupid · 12/09/2022 10:51

Yes, I might have to report Eresh's post just to see how the Hate reporting button works!

ImherewithBoudica · 12/09/2022 11:07

Ereshkigalangcleg · 12/09/2022 10:24

The current position is that it’s no crime to be hateful towards women simply because they are women, but it is a crime to be hateful towards a trans person because they’re trans, or a gay person because they’re gay.

This.

Actually as often, so very often, is demonstrated on the FWR board, it's perfectly ok to be unpleasant/offensive/derisory/Other Words Too towards gay people on the grounds of their gay characteristic if they are the Wrong Sort of gay people.

Ie those bloody ones who won't stop being homosexual on command to enable those with TQ+ identities to experience no boundaries.

This is all about hierarchies and power over others. Which was never intended, and is unjustifiable.

RufusthefIoraImissingreindeer · 12/09/2022 11:11

Unfriendliness? How ridiculous