Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

UK schools can now record pupils' sex instead of their gender

20 replies

hallouminatus · 05/09/2022 16:54

About 80% of UK school use SIMS to manage pupil data. It used to be that there was a field to record gender (male or female) but nowhere to record sex. The 'gender' field has now been relabelled as 'sex', and a new, optional field has been added to record pronouns, with the following options:
he/him/his/his/himself
she/her/her/hers/herself
they/them/their/theirs/themselves
e/em/eir/eirs/emself
ey/em/eir/eirs/eirself
sie/sie/hir/hirs/hirself
tey/ter/tem/ters/terself
ve/ver/vis/vers/verself/
zie/zim/zir/zis/zieself

This is what they say about the switch from gender to sex:
Following requests from a significant number of schools and extensive consultation we have cosmetically relabelled the ‘gender’ field within the user interface to ‘sex’. This is the area where schools will enter a pupil’s sex, as recorded on their birth certificate or gender recognition certificate. As the DfE’s Common Basic Dataset (CBDS) defines the values for ‘Gender’, we have not changed the label within statutory areas such as CTF or Census to avoid any issues in sharing data.
www.ess-sims.co.uk/sims7-summer-release

It's interesting that they say this change is due to requests from schools, and I wonder who was involved in the 'extensive consultation'. I think the change is positive, but still conflates sex and gender, and doesn't permit gender to be recorded as different from sex. There is also, as far as I can see, a conflict with the DfE guidance about the annual school census, which states, regarding gender:
We need this data for both on and off roll pupils.
The gender of the pupil in the format of ‘M’ (male) or ‘F’ (female).
Gender should be self-declared and recorded according to the wishes of the parent and / or pupil.
Individuals are free to change the way their gender is recorded.
www.gov.uk/guidance/complete-the-school-census/data-items-2022-to-2023

Regarding the 'pronoun' field, SIMS say this:
There is also a completely optional data item for ‘Pronoun(s)’. This enables schools who opt in for this functionality to record a pupil’s or staff member’s preferred personal pronouns.

I wonder how they decided on that list of pronouns. I'm glad the field is optional, and suspect it will be widely ignored.

OP posts:
MrsOvertonsWindow · 05/09/2022 17:50

Thank you hallouminatus. A positive small step

Of course it's inconsistent with the Stonewall captured DfE demands for the school census. Hopefully as the grabby hands of the lobby groups are clawed away from our institutions, these small steps will increase

Mrs O Window (tey/terf/tem/terfs/terfself) 🙂

ZandathePanda · 05/09/2022 18:00

fee/fi/fo/fum
zey missed the pronouns of a very big man

MrsOvertonsWindow · 05/09/2022 18:20

😂
Who on earth selected that list of pronouns? Presumably a Year 7.

FlibbertyGiblets · 05/09/2022 18:27

Thank you for the update.

Pronouns She/Ra.

BettyFilous · 05/09/2022 19:28

he/him/his/his/himself
she/her/her/hers/herself
they/them/their/theirs/themselves
e/em/eir/eirs/emself
ey/em/eir/eirs/eirself
sie/sie/hir/hirs/hirself
tey/ter/tem/ters/terself
ve/ver/vis/vers/verself/
zie/zim/zir/zis/zieself

No faeself? Disappointing.

caringcarer · 05/09/2022 19:38

Good knowing sex is important.

nothingcomestonothing · 06/09/2022 18:38

a pupil’s sex, as recorded on their birth certificate or gender recognition certificate. do they not realise that minors cannot obtain a GRC? Or is this a new form of 'getting ahead of the law'?

NumberTheory · 06/09/2022 18:40

It is a shit way to treat data, which is annoying and concerning. At least some schools will have been entering gender, not sex. Now it’s labeled sex but will have gender data in there, so stats from the system will be unreliable (even assuming all schools started recording new entries as sex in that field from now on). It also doesn’t tell us about gender identity, or trans status, so some schools will continue to use the field as a gender field instead of a sex field.

At least relabeling it will encourage schools to change their forms to ask for sex instead of gender.

NumberTheory · 06/09/2022 18:42

nothingcomestonothing · 06/09/2022 18:38

a pupil’s sex, as recorded on their birth certificate or gender recognition certificate. do they not realise that minors cannot obtain a GRC? Or is this a new form of 'getting ahead of the law'?

I assume this system could be used in 6th forms, so some pupils could, potentially, have a GRC. But I suspect it’s more that they haven’t even thought about what the law actually allows.

hallouminatus · 06/09/2022 19:08

NumberTheory · 06/09/2022 18:42

I assume this system could be used in 6th forms, so some pupils could, potentially, have a GRC. But I suspect it’s more that they haven’t even thought about what the law actually allows.

SIMS is used to record staff data too.

OP posts:
hallouminatus · 06/09/2022 19:19

Although they claim to have consulted extensively, It really doesn't look like they've thought very hard about what data are needed and how they'll be used. I wonder how many of the 'significant number' of schools which requested a change will be satisfied with how they've done it?

OP posts:
Seemslikeaniceday · 07/09/2022 09:37

Might this be as a result of the Interim Cass Report which had the following Key point:
“We need to know more about the population being referred and outcomes. There has not been routine and consistent data collection, which means it is not possible to accurately track the outcomes and pathways that children and young people take through the service.”

Accurate data recording of sex by schools, employers, NHS etc. is very important and I believe it is also a requirement of GDPR to hold accurate data.

TheClogLady · 07/09/2022 09:53

would the law allow for a seperate ‘gender’ field?

surely it would have to be sex M/F and then ‘have you undergone or do you intend to undergo gender reassignment?’ ✔️ / ❌

to actually be EA10 compliant?

and then optional box for special pronouns (irrelevant to anyone who hasn’t ticked the gender reassignment box)

anyway, the sex box needing to be matched with birth certificate is definitely a positive step, especially if it’s in response to requests from schools (some of whom are no doubt sick of changing it multiple times for ‘gender fluid’ students) although yes, simply relabelling the old ‘gender’ box means some of the currently held data is wrong.

Seemslikeaniceday · 07/09/2022 11:37

@TheClogLady You can configure a system with as many data fields as you want. As long as you are clear which are legally required and which are nice to have.

What you can’t do is make someone declare their gender identity in the same way you don’t have to declare disability, religion etc.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 07/09/2022 12:43

e/em/eir/eirs/emself
ey/em/eir/eirs/eirself
sie/sie/hir/hirs/hirself
tey/ter/tem/ters/terself
ve/ver/vis/vers/verself/
zie/zim/zir/zis/zieself

Maybe someone can explain what gender these actually refer to. I'm lost!

Changingnames20 · 07/09/2022 12:47

Are those pronouns for real?

Did I wake up in a Sci Fi movie?

hallouminatus · 07/09/2022 18:00

Genspect have raised this on twitter, recommending that SIMS consult with them as well as SexMatters and TransgenderTrend. nitter.net/genspect/status/1567432483137798146#m

OP posts:
NumberTheory · 07/09/2022 19:03

Seemslikeaniceday · 07/09/2022 09:37

Might this be as a result of the Interim Cass Report which had the following Key point:
“We need to know more about the population being referred and outcomes. There has not been routine and consistent data collection, which means it is not possible to accurately track the outcomes and pathways that children and young people take through the service.”

Accurate data recording of sex by schools, employers, NHS etc. is very important and I believe it is also a requirement of GDPR to hold accurate data.

Relabeling a current field makes data consistency extremely difficult. This hasn’t been done by people with a desire for good data and any kind of track record in collecting it over time. This looks very much like a move to meet a political(? - probably not the right word but not statistical) request as inexpensively as possible. Which does at least mean the wind is blowing in the right direction again on that front and they are recognizing that there is a need to know sex not gender at the school level.

TheClogLady · 08/09/2022 16:30

With the craze for infinite genders, schools would be daft to try and record them.

much better to stick with sex.

I hope you are right NumberTheory and this indicates which way the wind is blowing.

Deanandthellhounds · 08/03/2023 11:54

ZandathePanda · 05/09/2022 18:00

fee/fi/fo/fum
zey missed the pronouns of a very big man

omfg the is genius

New posts on this thread. Refresh page