Chris Bryant's answer to 'what is a woman' on LBC

[scratchedbymycat]

He is standing in for James O'Brian. The radio was on in the background so I'm not sure what the whole discussion was about, but I walked into the room when a male caller asked him 'what is a woman?'

Bryant was clear: a male person has a penis, a woman does not, and a miniscule part of the population are born with ambiguity around this.

He also said that there are some people who experience distress if they believe their gender identity does not align with their sex, and he has sympathy around that.

THEN, he added, at the end, that he had never been more worried about gay rights than he had been in the last five years.

I heard this while my daughter was also chattering loudly at me, and I feel I might have not heard everything.

Did anyone else hear this exchange? What was the broader context?

Here’s the link

Linky

The tweet replies are full of wokebros saying what a women is not that simple and going on about DSD

Thanks for that. He was even clearer than I remembered. However, listening to the end of his answer - regarding his fears as a gay man - that could be read in two ways. I'm wondering if his fears are over tensions in the gay community being stoked, or fears over the impact of trans activist ideology on gay men...? I was feeling hopeful, after the debacle of lesbians being asked to leave Pride, that he might be a prominent gay figure speaking up about concerns over the negative consequences of TRA ideology. But he wasn't as clear about that.

Wasn't he full on TWAW previously,or am I getting my male labour MPs confused?

I have no idea. He didn't say anything like that today.

He was more insistent that people live their lives in a way that makes them feel comfort. That normally means women move over, men's feelings over women's safety. The caller asked what he meant by transition as sex is fixed and he just replied I've answered your question let's move on.

He was more insistent that people live their lives in a way that makes them feel comfort.

I agree with him on this though. I don't care how people dress or what they call themselves etc, but I also believe sex is real and the source of female oppression, and provisions have to be made because of that reality. He seemed to be recognising sex is real.

Of course people should wear what they like, all for it. I'm against sexist stereotypes and any movement that deifies them. What if changing in the women's when you're male makes the male comfortable? He shut down the conversation. I still feel he meant prioritising the comfort and choice of males.

This is the part that stuck out to me. It is not compatible with safeguarding ie a male who wants to / has transitioned, who wants to be a GG leader. Sometimes it's a no, and those males must accept that.

"I fear today, being a gay man, what the future holds, more than I did five years ago".

What does he fear, as a gay man?

(Not sure what's happening with my posts but they don't seem to be going up).

The he/himmers on twitter are happy with his answers.

I cant see my reply to your previous point, so not sure if you saw me also agreeing that what people wear, what they call themselves etc is not an issue. But that sex is real, sexual oppression is real, and provisions need to be sustained for those reasons. He seemed to be recognising sex is real.

I saw that. Intrigued me Bryant managed to give an answer I was happy with too (albeit, with questions). I note the he/himmers are at pains to explain XX and XY isn't simple, so they might possibly be a little unnerved by Bryant's reference to DSDs being very rare.

He retweeted Adam Bienkov the other day who said,

@AdamBienkov
A trans woman is not a woman says Rishi Sunak, who apparently does not understand how the law stands under his own government.
8:10 PM · Aug 25, 2022·Twitter for iPhone

Many women have corrected Adam but hey ho...

Transcript of clip

Caller: Umm, final issue. I think - can I ask, what is a woman?

Chris: <speaking briskly> Ah, well I do know the difference between a, a man and a woman. A man normally has a pe - a man has a penis a woman has a vagina, umm, and there are of course some medical situations where, err, individuals are, um, born slightly differently. They're very rare exceptions. And then there are people who feel that they are trapped, emm, and I have every single sympathy for somebody who, emm, feels the need to transition. <Pause, waiting for caller to come back in>

Caller: Transition, though. If there's - the difference is XY chromosomes or XX and given those things are immutable, what does it actually mean to transition?

Chris: <speaking briskly> I think I've answered your question.

<speaking more slowly, ?picking words carefully?>
I, and, and, I tell you - something that really frightens me at the moment is politicians who want to use - this issue - to stir division - because for me, emm, there - your right to live your life the way you want, and that you feel comfortable, is absolutely intrinsic to a decent society, and, I - I fear today - being a gay man -emm, what the future holds - more than I did five years ago.

Lets move on.

==========

Personally, I think Bryant is being (deliberately?) unclear here. He was asked what is a woman, and his answer encompassed vaginas, DSD conditions, and transition. So IMO he might as well have just said 'anyone who wants to be'.

He then spent far longer on his 'live your life the way you want'; by which I'm pretty fucking sure he didn't mean 'live your female life without males pushing themselves into every aspect'.

So I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that he is TWAW.

As for fearing what the future holds, I'm wondering. Again, he was just so vague it's hard to know what it is that he's fearing. It could be anything from being expected to embrace mangina in his dating pool to an increase in homophobia and everything in between. He deliberately didn't say. (And if it is the increased homophobia, I doubt that he will make the connection to the forced teaming of LGB and TQ+.)

This is the most significant part of what he said. He's dodging the TWAW but stressing the rights of transwomen to do what makes them comfortable. It's the freedom to or freedom from dilemma. He obvious feels transwomen should have freedom to use whatever spaces they choose thereby removing women's right to freedom from men in single sex spaces. So when he answers the question he's clear but completely erases the issue of women's rights to be comfortable.

His concern about his rights as a gay man doesn't extend to fears about the rights of Lesbians. I'm not impressed.

Transition, though. If there's - the difference is XY chromosomes or XX and given those things are immutable, what does it actually mean to transition?

This is the key question. It's rarely answered. He couldn't answer it and dishonestly pretended he had.

Medical transition requires the belief that women have certain bodies and men have other bodies - is this an acceptable belief?

Social transition - what is it, what is the aim?

What does it mean to have a "gender" aligned with a sex? Which types of gender align with which sexes, and why - who decides this?

I'm actually quite impressed with how people have been dodging the same questions for years. They must realise, privately, why they can't answer loudly and proudly.

So I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that he is TWAW.

I'm honestly not sure if this tells me what I would like to know about someone's views.

I could easily say TWAW too, but I would be alluding to them being woman in terms of how they identify, and I would be being politely going along with that identity. It goes back to me not caring how people are dressed or what they call themselves and believing people should live their lives happily.

However, I could never says TWAW if it means they are viewed as biologically equivalent, and anyone who thought I was saying that would be wrong.

(For the record, I don't go around saying TWAW precisely because it isn't clear and can be misconstrued).

I think there are a lot of transgender women who wouldn't ever dream of violating female spaces etc, but they live their lives as women. I have no issue with them at all. Ten years ago, TWAW wouldn't have seemed, to me, to be a massively controversial thing to say.

He obvious feels transwomen should have freedom to use whatever spaces they choose thereby removing women's right to freedom from men in single sex spaces.

This really isn't very obvious to me at all from anything he said in this clip.

I think he is very near but does not understand the concerns of GC women. He recognises biological differences but is stuck on "be kind" mode.

He was also concerned about 'conversion therapy' but I think not in the way that GC women are, he doesn't understand the implications for children and young people.

He needs someone to properly explain the issues to him.

This seems the more likely position to me too. And I think it's true of a lot of people who are beginning to understand, but not fully there yet, and straddling that and not wanting to be offensive to transgender people.

According to Wikipedia, last December he told the BBC that he felt less physically safe as a gay man than he did 30 years ago and that although Boris Johnson wasn’t homophobic the people around him were happy to ‘stir the pot’ . As evidence he cited their attitude to transgender people and to conversion therapy.

Figs, I vaguely recall that - was it one of that series of personal interviews that Nick Robinson did with various well known people on Radio 4? I forget the name of the series.

The BBC news article cited in Wikipedia’s footnote says it was Nick Robinson’s Political Thinking podcast.

Ah yes, that's it. He talked a lot about his early life which was quite interesting - and unusual too.