Page 2 | Japan - this seems harsh

IcakethereforeIam · 2022-08-19T17:03:34+00:00

I didn't know this about Japan, article from the Guardian. Tw who had children with female partner using sperm preserved from before transition refused permission to be recognised as childrens' parent. Also Japan doesn't recognise same sex marriage. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/19/japan-transgender-woman-parent-child-tokyo-high-court

Original poster

IcakethereforeIam · 20/08/2022 11:38

It does avoid the kind of....cakeism, where men claim to be women but make no, or very few, moves in that direction. The adults involved were adults, should have realised the ramifications but, perhaps, thought they could use the law to get their own way. As the male was recognised as a parent for the younger child, they could have hung off the documentation until they'd completed their family. It was ai, hardly an unplanned pregnancy. Seems such a shame for paperwork that's essentially symbolic, as they can't actually change sex.

I have sympathy but my concern would be for the children and, perhaps, the mother.

OP posts:

Changednamesorry · 20/08/2022 11:56

Manekinek0 · 19/08/2022 18:53

Japan is a conservative country. Homophobia, sexism and racism are rife. There is still an expectation for women to give up work once they marry.

Although I am sure it is distressing for the parents I am sure it won't be a surprise to them.

This is not accurate. Japan is a conservative country, yes. However women aren't expected to give up work on marrying at all. Equally although i have heard much about how racist Japan supposedly is, this was not at all.my experience when visiting rural Japan with my (Japanese) ex, our mixed race son and my older mixed race (half black half white) son from a previous relationship. My older son was embraced into the Japanese family in exactly the same way as my younger one and was treated exactly the same. This is a rural farming family where my ex's parents were in their 80s and most of their relatives in general over 70.

My son and I did not face any racism at all in Japan from the community at large either.

Homophobia, well. It is true that being gay isn't something you hear much about in rural Japan, maybe in Tokyo etc they are a little more advanced, so there may well be homophobia.

The Koseki Tohon which is the Japanese family record is a fairly strict document and inflexible. That's just how it is. The fact is that the people in question should have done their research. My son doesn't have Japanese nationality because under Japanese law if the parents are unmarried the father must recognise the child as his at the consulate officially BEFORE birth for.it to be a smooth process. When I spoke to the Japanese consulate about this it was a brick wall of "that's how things work in Japan." and I imagine the people in the story had a similar response. And, well, that IS how it is in Japan, like it or not. After that it takes a significant amount of time to get Japanese nationality for the child and we never got around to it.

Japan isn't flexible. No means no. So I can completely see how in this case the person provided the sperm and wants to be registered as "parent" ....nope. sperm provider is "ottosan" (father) . "Ottosan" = "man". So that would be end of discussion, I imagine. I haven't mentioned this case to my ex but I am quite sure that if I did his response would be "yeah, so? He should have thought of that, that's how things are in Japan".

puffyisgood · 20/08/2022 11:57

ludicrous. everyone should be able to marry who they want, and this person, 'woman' or not, is the child's father.

Changednamesorry · 20/08/2022 12:01

Oh also, re sexism. It is a Japanese way of doing things that when the man goes out to work and the woman stays home that he deposits his entire salary into her bank account and she pays all household bills, deals with savings etc and gives him.some.pocket money from his own salary to go out.

Not so common to hear of financial abuse in Japan. Many many Japanese wives are outwardly quite and demure and inwardly run the ship with an iron fist!

Penguintears · 21/08/2022 01:15

Changednamesorry · 20/08/2022 12:01

Oh also, re sexism. It is a Japanese way of doing things that when the man goes out to work and the woman stays home that he deposits his entire salary into her bank account and she pays all household bills, deals with savings etc and gives him.some.pocket money from his own salary to go out.

Not so common to hear of financial abuse in Japan. Many many Japanese wives are outwardly quite and demure and inwardly run the ship with an iron fist!

I didn't know that. How interesting!

Changednamesorry · 21/08/2022 01:59

It is indeed true, it's called "okuzukai" . More info here.

kotaku.com/the-world-of-japanese-husband-salaries-506417591

SheeWeee · 22/08/2022 12:30

JustWaking · 20/08/2022 10:43

You don't have it both ways. You can't be a woman and a father. That's biological reality

But the error isn't with them being a father. It's that they're not actually a woman.

It's quite inconsistent to be willing to pretend that they are a woman, but not willing to pretend that they are a mother.

(I don't think we should be pretending either that they are a woman or that they are a mother. )

Yes, but they insisted on creating a fiction that they are a woman. They went all in on it. They can't then backpedal furiously to be deemed a father, as women can't be fathers.
They also can't be the mother, because they aren't the mother.

Obviously its the fiction that the person is a woman is the real issue here. But that is what they wanted to be, and this is the natural consequence of that.

Changednamesorry · 22/08/2022 19:14

SheeWeee · 22/08/2022 12:30

Yes, but they insisted on creating a fiction that they are a woman. They went all in on it. They can't then backpedal furiously to be deemed a father, as women can't be fathers.
They also can't be the mother, because they aren't the mother.

Obviously its the fiction that the person is a woman is the real issue here. But that is what they wanted to be, and this is the natural consequence of that.

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Agreed entirely