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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Dina Asher-Smith calls for more research into the impact of periods on athletes

49 replies

oviraptor21 · 19/08/2022 06:53

www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/aug/18/dina-asher-smith-powers-into-200m-final-and-says-calf-cramps-were-caused-by-period

More sunlight on the biological differences between women and men.

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CaveMum · 19/08/2022 10:43

The BBC did a survey if elite female sportswomen on this a few years ago. As ever the pace of change is glacial.

www.bbc.com/sport/53705777.amp

CaveMum · 19/08/2022 10:45

Eilish McColgan has written a blog piece about this today: www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/61752427.amp

ThickCutSteakChips · 19/08/2022 10:55

So glad to see Dina chucking out the words, women, girl, men without trying to tie herself in knots to say 'the right thing'!

This is an issue - it has to be, i think about how crap I feel at certain times of the month and can barely be arsed to get off the sofa, let alone compete in elite sport! 😂

Clymene · 19/08/2022 10:59

That's a great piece by McColgan.

It's an absolute disgrace that there is so little funding helping female athletes to combat the impact of periods on their performance.

I don't blame Asher-Smith for being so careful with her words. Some of you may not be interested enough in athletics to remember Lynsey Sharp. Sharp should have won a medal at Rio but didn't because the medalists were all men with DSDs. It has destroyed her career

www.telegraph.co.uk/athletics/2020/05/02/lynsey-sharp-interview-didnt-do-anything-not-sure-apologising/

puffyisgood · 19/08/2022 11:03

this issue is certainly a non-trivial part of the reason why trans and other xy competitors shouldn't be allowed in women's competition. in terms of a fix for the impact of periods on sport that works well for everyone, well, I won't hold my breath.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 19/08/2022 11:11

FallOutPloy · 19/08/2022 07:14

I was going to say that if anyone's interested in helping with this kind of research, Exeter uni are currently looking for people to help research into "The effect of menstrual cycle phase on muscle protein synthesis in response to exercise and a protein-polyphenol drink in young females"

But I've just looked through the details, and it sounds brutal! Spread over 4 days, and two of those days involve having four muscle samples taken from your legs 😬 So, I welcome the research, but I won't be signing up!!

Do you have a link as it might help interested people to understand how minor the muscle sample is.

BellaAmorosa · 19/08/2022 11:26

Fenlandia · 19/08/2022 10:15

It's striking to compare this coverage of her talking about periods affecting female athletes to the interview D A-S gave to the Telegraph 6 days ago that covered transwomen and male DSD participation in women's sport.

I understand her wanting to be nuanced, respectful and considered, and to avoid the toxic abuse that other female athletes have had. So I don't criticise her at all, but I hate the way women are not allowed to speak as freely as they need to about female sport (and all the other places where genderwoo is rife).

www.telegraph.co.uk/athletics/2022/08/13/dina-asher-smith-exclusive-what-must-happen-sports-gender-row/

So it is with some trepidation, as we talk at a Brands Hatch hotel near her home in Kent, that I broach the issue of transgender and intersex women in athletics. Their eligibility to compete is a fraught but hugely significant debate for track and field this year. Sebastian Coe, president of World Athletics, has already indicated that he favours a ban, arguing: “Biology trumps gender.”

A final decision is due to be reached in November, with potentially major implications for the women’s 200 metres, Asher-Smith’s main event. Two of her fastest rivals, Namibia’s Beatrice Masilingi and Aminatou Seyni of Niger, have been determined as having differences in sexual development, with naturally high testosterone levels. Both have been banned from the 400m but are allowed to race in the 200, with World Athletics’ scientific studies suggesting that elevated testosterone confers less of a performance advantage over the shorter distance.

Against this backdrop, I ask Asher-Smith whether enough is being done to protect the integrity of the female category in sport. “It’s a very good question,” she says. “It’s a very good way of putting it. It needs a lot more research on both sides, frankly. It’s such an important question. It transcends sport. It’s way beyond sport. So, take it outside the sporting context. It’s something we’re grappling with as a society. It needs completely open thinking, so that you can understand everything. You need to have every single fact possible, before you draw any conclusions. I would love to see so much more research, removed from any bias, so that we truly understand the whole situation. I still think that we don’t.”

The answer is measured and respectful. And yet for several minutes after the tape has stopped, she agonises over whether any of her words could be misconstrued. It is an illustration both of how white-hot the controversy has become and of her own sensitivity to nuance.

That is so frustrating to read, but I don't blame her for her circumspection!

And very annoying to see Mboma et al described as "intersex women" - they are MEN with DSDs affecting the appearance of their genitals but they have been through normal male puberty. That's the whole point. They are legally women only because of a mistake made by the midwife/doctor at their birth. If they were women, there wouldn't be an issue because they wouldn't have male pubertal advantage or such high levels of testosterone in their system. Aaargh!

Seb Coe and World Athletics, please get on with sorting this out!

BellaAmorosa · 19/08/2022 11:28

The article references Masilingi and Seyni, not Mboma, but the points are the same.

Topseyt123 · 19/08/2022 11:28

Great to see other prominent female athletes such as Eilish McColgan wading in in support of what Dina has said.

ThickCutSteakChips · 19/08/2022 11:30

I actually find it a bit upsetting that Dina was stressing out for several minutes after that interview about whether her words could be misconstrued. She has witnessed what has happened to others who don't tow the line.

Fuck all those fucking people who have frightened women into this position.

BellaAmorosa · 19/08/2022 11:34

puffyisgood · 19/08/2022 11:03

this issue is certainly a non-trivial part of the reason why trans and other xy competitors shouldn't be allowed in women's competition. in terms of a fix for the impact of periods on sport that works well for everyone, well, I won't hold my breath.

@puffyisgood
Quite so. One of several non-trivial reasons.

Helleofabore · 19/08/2022 11:41

Fenlandia

Thanks for that link. The author of that article 'went there' didn't they? At the end. They undermined Dina's very carefully constructed reply so that anyone reading it would now be questioning her reply.

I think that she is very careful in how she discusses the issue because it could very negatively impact her future.

BellaAmorosa · 19/08/2022 11:43

That is a very frank and illuminating article by Eilish McColgan. She's right, it's so important for other women to realise that top-performing women athletes are struggling with the same issues as they are.

On a bit of a tangent, I wonder if this is connected to the received wisdom that women teams do better when managed by a woman, all other things being equal. I can imagine that knowing that your coach/manager understands what you go through and has been through the same herself helps the team just try that little bit harder or bond more tightly? No science behind this that I am aware of, just conjecture on my part.

Itsmemaggie · 19/08/2022 11:58

There is some research being done on this. I follow this researcher on TikTok who researches women’s physiology and the impact of the menstrual cycle of training.

www.tiktok.com/@doclyssfitness?_t=8UxgXsJL9OA&_r=1

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 19/08/2022 12:06

Itsmemaggie · 19/08/2022 11:58

There is some research being done on this. I follow this researcher on TikTok who researches women’s physiology and the impact of the menstrual cycle of training.

www.tiktok.com/@doclyssfitness?_t=8UxgXsJL9OA&_r=1

We Do Science podcast has a mass of quite technical information about nutrition and performance from world leading researchers. A fair number are about female athletes.

theiopn.com/podcasts/

Suppversity has quite a lot on the menstrual cycle and the athlete's triad (not updated since Dec. 2020).

suppversity.blogspot.com/

FallOutPloy · 19/08/2022 12:47

@EmbarrassingHadrosaurus

Sure. The link to the Exeter Uni request for people to help with their research into "The effect of menstrual cycle phase on muscle protein synthesis in response to exercise and a protein-polyphenol drink in young females" is here:
sshs.exeter.ac.uk/research/integrativephysiology/nutritionalphysiology/participate/#a12

WarriorN · 19/08/2022 13:12

WarriorN · 19/08/2022 08:00

Considering mini pill on top of hrt as my joints are so badly affected by changes in the cycle. I am struggling to do any exercise that isn't swimming or weights, including walking some days.

Never had any issues when younger.

There is a free app which gives a lot of the info. Don't have to track, can just read all the info relating to days

Sorry couldn't remember the app; this is it. I believe the US womens football team used and I think also U.K. Chelsea. Maybe the lionesses?!

WarriorN · 19/08/2022 13:12

www.fitrwoman.com/

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 19/08/2022 13:21

FallOutPloy · 19/08/2022 12:47

@EmbarrassingHadrosaurus

Sure. The link to the Exeter Uni request for people to help with their research into "The effect of menstrual cycle phase on muscle protein synthesis in response to exercise and a protein-polyphenol drink in young females" is here:
sshs.exeter.ac.uk/research/integrativephysiology/nutritionalphysiology/participate/#a12

Thank you - that's an interesting project. It's a real shame that the researchers didn't provide an information sheet that would let interested women know what the muscle samples involve etc.

oviraptor21 · 19/08/2022 15:19

Good to see Eilish's insightful piece too.

I seem to recall a while back a female tennis player saying they went on the pill and organised their tournament schedule around the pill usage, occasionally reducing the pill free days in order to be in the best condition for the most important games.
The women's game has historically been much more unpredictable than the men's game and I've always assumed that the menstrual cycle has a large part to play.

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oviraptor21 · 19/08/2022 15:29

Eilish's piece links to this earlier BBC report
BBC News - Periods - how do they affect athletes & why are they monitored?
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/48243310
Interesting comment about the medical team.

Dina Asher-Smith calls for more research into the impact of periods on athletes
OP posts:
gatehouseoffleet · 19/08/2022 20:45

Going back to Lynsey Sharp - gosh the South Africans really do idolise Semenya don't they. The Rio 2016 podium was a joke. I hope one day the injustice will be undone, but as it was all within the rules at the time, probably not.

Lynsey Sharp also had a lot of hassle because she wasn't in favour of Scottish independence (who knows she might have changed her mind since then).

For all that, even I wondered why British Athletics had kept her on funding, but she has had a baby and is back to training now, so hopefully she will get back to her best.

mcduffy · 20/08/2022 07:20

EMc in the Times Scotland section too

We must talk openly about period pain, says Eilish McColgan

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/9b4785ca-2004-11ed-b7c3-8b288ab55a56?shareToken=a50add49ee27faf98f27db36c2b610af

SummerLobelia · 20/08/2022 08:17

Strangerthanever · 19/08/2022 08:59

I play a racquet sport and I'm useless in the days before my period, clumsy and uncoordinated. I have had a couple of falls and both were at these times. When I have my period I'm grateful I can just play in black shorts or leggings too, would dread whites.
I stopped playing competitive sports at school because of my periods as they were impossible to manage at sporting events, I carried on swimming for a while, but was expected to use tampons from day one and no excuses.

I used to do three day eventing and I also felt really clumsy and sluggish and my reflexes were very slow in the days before my period. On occasions it was frankly dangerous, as when you are on top of a large horse charging at immovable obstacles you need to be on top form.

It is a very real thing.

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