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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The Girlfriend who didn’t exist

40 replies

WhatFreshHellisCismas · 16/08/2022 19:17

I am just watching this on Netflix and my jaw is on the floor.

Not only at the story itself and how it all came out, but how how Naya makes it all about themselves - their feelings and their self validation - what they put Manti through for this is just shocking

Poor Manti.

OP posts:
XDownwiththissortofthingX · 17/08/2022 18:23

WhatFreshHellisCismas · 17/08/2022 18:17

@XDownwiththissortofthingX well I’m sure you know far more about it than the individual concerned, his agent, plus all the experts who were stunned at his late draft 🙄

He stated himself about the anxiety attacks that plagued his professional career.

it doesn’t matter if he was a footballer or an accountant or a teacher - or any career - this person’s actions and their entitlement and self absorption massively impacted his life, adversely.

I think there's a bit of revisionism going on. Absolutely nobody was 'stunned at his late draft', the complete opposite in fact. Most knowledgeable commentators had Te'o down as a 4th round pick, perhaps late 3rd at best, so there was a lot of confusion and disbelief when the Chargers traded up in the 2nd round to take him. Most people thought that was a round and a half too high at the time, and his performance on the field did nothing at all to prove them wrong.

They have a documentary to make, a story to tell, so it's not remotely surprising they'll bend the truth slightly for dramatic effect.

unwashedanddazed · 17/08/2022 20:58

The start of the documentary shows this person catfished a string of other men before Manti. Horrible person. Utterly without shame or regret.

Also very revealing about how the imaginary persona takes over from reality. I'm sure some trans widows would have some interesting takes on this phenomenon.

PinkFrogss · 17/08/2022 23:31

When the catfish spoke about how they had put themselves on the back burner for years my mind truly boggled Confused

Maybe they should have spent a bit less time breathing down the phone pretending to be in a coma, and more time in intense therapy.

Vecna · 18/08/2022 00:32

I've come here after reading the Guardian article hoping to find others similarly outraged! Glad not to be disappointed.

What a horrible thing to do to a sweet young man. But of course it's all okay because Naya is trans and learnt more about herself! Manti had all the consequences. It's infuriating. Piece of shit, lying, selfish manipulative fraudster. So utterly self-absorbed! So entitled! And the Guardian being sympathetic pissed me off. I suppose only a transphobe would take issue with Naya and the awful, sociopathic behaviour.

mirax · 18/08/2022 03:56

If the hoax was revealed today, Manti would be roundly chastised for being transphobic in not dating poor marginalised "Naya". Ronaiah is pitiful in so far as he came from a very religious background where his homosexuality would not be accepted but he remains a thoroughly unpleasant and unrepentant predator.

achillestoes · 18/08/2022 06:57

“I knew it was selfish but it made me happy.”

What’s the “but” doing in there? Just selfish.

JunkIsland · 19/08/2022 00:01

The Guardian article talks about the documentary giving an insight into the catfisher’s state of mind in carrying out the hoax. I don’t think it did that at all, actually, or at least not how the Guardian implies. If a novelist had written a cat fishing character based on the ‘insight’ provided by Naya’s comments, I’d consider it a trite and unconvincing portrayal. She talked about obsession and compulsion in a light and unengaged way - no light at all was shone on what is extreme, unusual and unempathetic behaviour.

Re the draft question, the search ‘Manti Te’O draft’ brings up contemporaneous several articles referring to him ‘finally’ getting picked or dropping down. CNBC: “On most draft projections, he was a top-10 pick.” An article from Jan 2013 predicts top 20. Regardless of how his career played out, it does seem like he didn’t do as well as predicted, although the more sober articles put it down to recent performance (which I guess he would link to the hoax). I didn’t see anything talking about third or fourth round.

SD1978 · 19/08/2022 00:45

This was a disgusting hoax and the person involved should've portrayed sympathetically at all. They mentally destroyed him. Caused him to be a joke and he bullied publicly in the media. They do not deserve any sympathy at all.

Summer776 · 19/08/2022 01:15

No remorse or regret expressed above the achievement of notrtity and confidence. Appalling.

theniceunderstandingone · 19/08/2022 01:20

Yes wow I just finished this too. I feel so sorry for Manti but what a stand up guy to forgive Naya and wish her the best.

It truly is sickening how the media turns on people though

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 19/08/2022 01:52

@JunkIsland

The draft prediction thing really depends on the source and timing. The mainstream sources tend to overvalue players who succeed at large colleges in competitive divisions because of profile, and they also tend to put out projection articles early on in the year. Sites that are run and staffed by independents tend to have a more nuanced approach to player evaluation based on career projection and fit, and potential for physical development over actual college output. Some of them are also less inclined to paint themselves into a corner by tagging players to go in specific spots, and will talk more in terms of ceilings/floors for where a specific player might go.

There's no denying that Te'o was a productive college talent, and playing at a significant programme he was always going to garner attention before moving to the Pros. The questions over how he projected at NFL level were always about his small size and limited athleticism rather than his character or off-field events. Opinions from after Te'o's awful Combine performance were still split on whether he was a legitimate 1st round talent, or whether he was destined to be yet another of the countless athletes who are stars at Collegiate level but completely fail to make any impact in the NFL. The people who didn't believe the off-field stuff was a factor and did not have doubts about how his play projected to NFL level were largely suggesting that he may well have been a low 1st round choice, that much is absolutely true, however there were also other sources who, (correctly in my opinion), didn't really pay any heed to the off-field distractions in any case, because they felt that at a fundamental level Te'o simply lacked the necessary physical tools to translate what he did at college into the Pro game. Those were the people who felt that he wasn't worth investing any more than a 3rd to 4th round pick in, and even the opinions of some of the mainstream sources who had earlier had him tagged as a low 1st round choice changed somewhat after that terrible Combine, as that was more of a naked look at what Te'o was about athletically rather than evaluating him purely on footballing performance.

I admit, my earlier assertion that nobody had Te'o down as a 1st rounder is incorrect. I still stand by my basic point though that his career was not 'ruined' by what happened to him off the field. When he was selected by the Chargers there were people aghast that they'd pick a player with his physical shortcomings that highly, but those would have been the same people who felt he wasn't worth that slot, whereas the people projecting him as a 1st round choice, and quite possibly Te'o himself, would understandably believe that he had 'fallen' in the draft due to the whole girlfriend saga.

Again, I can only point to the fact that his Combine output backed up what the doubters were saying, and that his actual NFL performance, such as it was, was on a par with what you could realistically expect from a player taken lower in the draft than Te'o was in reality. Confidence is great, but it doesn't give you the strength to shed the blocks of much larger men in the NFL, wrap up tackles on stronger backs, or give you the added agility and quickness to cover Ends down the field, all things Te'o did perfectly well in college but struggled with in the Pros due to the very deficiencies that the 'doubters' were talking about pre-draft. History is full of players who were dominant in college but either flopped, or didn't even make it to the NFL. It's not uncommon, and it's rarely because of distractions like the Te'o saga, it's more often than not down to the fact that the two levels of the sport are night and day apart, and starring in one does not automatically impart you with the ability to star in the other. Te'o did not 'fail' and NFL level, he just never reproduced his performance level he showed at Notre Dame. That may have been surprising to some, but at the same time there were plenty of others who predicted exactly that and did not view it as in any way a shock.

I suppose the truth would be that being taken after a trade up in the 2nd was a scenario that nobody really foresaw, both those who thought he merited a 1st round pick, and those who didn't believe he was worth the 2nd the Chargers spent on him. It's also the case though that he did have/has a reasonably lengthy and lucrative career regardless, just not that of a megastar, but then there was nothing about his college play that suggested he was destined to be an NFL 'megastar' in any case, not unless he could find a way to grow a couple of inches, put on 20llbs, and somehow get faster at the same time. His shortcomings were never about heart, intelligence, or even a lack of opportunity handed to him in the pros, they were entirely down to his own (relatively speaking) lack of size, strength, and speed.

Pre-draft opinions are just that, opinions. It's rare that there are more than two or three players in any single draft that everyone, without exception, agrees are destined for success in the pros. Te'o was never close to being one of those types of players, so I don't think it's in any way realistic to suggest that he had megastardom taken away from him. He was still given the exact same opportunity to play, start, and perform in the NFL that he would have been given had he been the 1st overall selection, arguably more so since he went to a superior team than he would have had he been picked 1st overall, and yet he was decidedly average across the length of his first contract, struggled with all the things, and in the exact manner that many thought he would, did not earn a second contract, and was released after four seasons. That is not a successful return on a 2nd round investment. As a sidenote, the GM who chose Te'o has a long standing habit of completely blowing 2nd round choices, so Te'o is not alone in that regard.

Had Te'o performed in the NFL like the superstar he was touted as, his draft position would have been rendered inconsequential as he would still have earned a huge second, and possibly third contract, and would still be playing right now at 31 years of age. He was given every opportunity to make that happen, but time and time again he was found wanting no matter how the team tried to use him. He wasn't stout enough to stop the run, and wasn't swift enough to cover receivers, so he fundamentally lacked the necessary variables that would permit him to play at 'star' level despite being given the opportunity to prove that he could do it. He was capable enough to play in the league as a back-up and rotational player, but that's not what you'd expect if you were a team investing a 2nd round pick, so by any fair measure he did not play up to his billing or investment as it was, and at no point could anyone have justified spending a 1st round pick. Hype and profile has a lot to answer for when it comes to expectations placed on young college players, hence why there are so many horrendous mis-evaluations and colossal busts in the Pros. Te'o wasn't a 'bust' as such, but he was still an underperformer, predictably so in my opinion.

Newand · 19/08/2022 01:55

Clearly the catfisher was in the wrong and even said they have no regrets I believe (in the doc). What Manti was put through during and after was ridiculous.

But do you think Manti perhaps enjoyed all the attention and special treatment before the hoax was revealed? It’s very strange to call someone your girlfriend when you’ve never met them. And he kept that part quiet.

JustKittenAround · 20/08/2022 02:20

WhatFreshHellisCismas · 16/08/2022 23:37

The documentary states he was drafted far later than expected which potentially cost him millions of dollars and impacted his career. He was ridiculed and mocked mercilessly. Teams didn’t want to draft him in case he was gay. And yet he has forgiveness in his heart where as the one that caused the chaos only considers their emergence from the chrysalis

All this.

when it came out in the US it was incredibly embarrassing for him. There was a trend where you’d throw your arm over an invisible person and post like you had your girlfriend there. People got creative.

at first it was thought that he was just so very very stupid. A true dullard.

Its a more recent thing to take Mr Catfishes side and frame it as a gender thing. When it all went down it was on him and he looked a right fool.

Now we are meant to take into this emotional grifters take.

I wonder if all those love scammers who take women and men for whatever they have fall back on “it made them happy at the time.” I wonder also how many of us have had partners in the past who lied and played along … it’s not as easy as this man makes it.

Seriously though, this fake GF was made fun of to a ridiculous degree. He is strong to have survived it, but he is forever going to be thought of as mentally lacking in the BEST case scenario, worst case he is thought of as a complicit grifter. They were merciless….

knittingaddict · 20/08/2022 07:11

MrGHardy · 17/08/2022 08:00

"the romantic hoax at the heart of Te’o’s national humiliation was about much deeper and more interesting questions of identity, faith and belonging – for minorities in particular – in early 21st century America".

Are they seriously setting the scene of someone being humiliated as romantic? And as a "question of identity"?

I'm hoping they meant "romance" hoax but that might be giving them too much credit.

Isthisexpected · 13/12/2022 08:15

The poor man was completely humiliated and vilified by the media for being gay. Yes he had an NFL career but his experience of that would have been completely different had this not happened to him. How many other people had to answer questions about their sexuality before the draft? Had team mates swerve them because they are not trusted anymore? He endured mental health difficulties for years and the experience will stay with him like any trauma.

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