The Guardian: Serena Williams to quit genus due to biology inequality!

[PriamFarrl]

www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2022/aug/10/serena-williams-farewell-eloquent-acknowledgement-biological-inequality?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1660166469

She is retiring because she wants more children. As she puts it, a male player would be out playing while his wife did that.

So there is a difference between men and women after all. Who knew.

I’m not trying to make it into a GC thing. My point is that the guardian frequently tell us that TWAW but in this article acknowledge that women are disadvantaged by their biology. Now either there is no difference between men and women or there is. You can’t have it both ways.

Nothing we can do about the fact that women give birth

Sorry @achillestoes but I think you are missing OPs point. The point isn't to complain about what childbearing women lose out on in their working lives (though of course that's an issue).

The point is that there is clearly a difference in the life experiences of men and women that is based on sex (biology) not gender. This is a point that really needs to be made in a world in which men can claim to be women on the basis that they 'identify' with being a woman. In reality they identify with wearing dresses etc. they will never be able to experience the things that arise from biological differences, not just in childbirth but in work, relationships etc. etc.

@Horological

I agree entirely with that. I was responding to the idea that she is quitting because of biological inequality. I might be missing some nuance but isn’t that the point of the thread?

Respect to her for not looking at using a surrogate to get around this and keep playing.

@Boxowine

"She was pregnant with Olympia when she won the Australian Open in 2017. Are you even a fan?"

Very much a fan. Did you mean to be so rude?

That was very early in her pregnant.

You are aware that she was talking about post birth recovery? She had to have an emergency c section which led her being bed ridden for 6 weeks and with a lot of scar tissue which hampered her return.

@achillestoes
I was responding to the idea that she is quitting because of biological inequality

I don't want to appear to be policing, I am not the OP and of course I can't speak for exactly what she was getting at. The way I see it is the OP is not really making the point that SW is stepping back because of inequality (though that's an important, related issue) but that SW is stepping back because of biological difference (which leads to inequality).

Most people seem to be on board with ideas about gender inequality these days but many seem to be in denial about biological difference which is the root of it.

@Horological

I understand. I don’t think that’s the reason either, to be honest, I think it’s just her age and stage.

That want rude.

She had a high risk pregnancy due to a pre-existing medical condition which resulted in an emergency C section and

she nearly died from a pulmonary embolism post birth. All of this is well known, including the shocking medical care she received.
She has had a health condition for years, which has had as much of an impact on her playing as her pregnancy has. All very well known.

I have no idea why anyone would try to link her career and retirement to the trans debate.

But, I would be open to a discussion about her marriage to the guy who owns reddit and it's influence on the culture wars.

I'd actually be much more interested in a discussion about how even one of the greatest athletes of our time has been repeatedly subjected to racism and sexism but somehow I don't think there's interest in any of that here, just a feeble attempt to somehow turn her retirement announcement into some kind of GC affirmation.

I have no idea why anyone would try to link her career and retirement to the trans debate.

its not really about Serena Williams, this could in all honesty be any female athlete. As I have explained a number of times it’s more about the guardian acknowledging that there is actually a physical difference between men and women.

If you think back to the early days, Serena displayed the same kind of distracting, unsporting conduct that Nick Kyrgios is known for - some pass off this scene making as gamesmanship but I never her, NK or indeed Djokovic - who also used to play up and quit if he was loosing. Serena’s histrionic’s when losing in the US Open final in 2018 to eventual winner Naomi Osaka reminded me just how much of an unsporting, spoilt prima Donna she is. NO’s first slam victory was completely overshadowed by her disgraceful behaviour. I’ve got no positive feelings about her. Martina OTOH is one of my few sporting heroes.

I came here to say this too.

But if you allow a male to play on the women's circuit they will never have to make that choice. One of the many reasons sport should be segregated by sex.

That's called whataboutery. Wonder why you want to steer the conversation away from the points being made. 🤔

The point is that the female tennis players have to take on the physical burden of childbirth which males don't and it does very much limit female careers. Look at the fuss made about Tatjjana Maria because she is a mother.

It's unusual for females to keep playing after they become mothers, whereas federer etc will never have to contend with that.

If Transwomen are allowed to play on the Women's tennis circuit they will also never have to contend with the biological realities of being a female. One of the many reasons it would not be fair or a level playing field.

It also shows that sportswomen have to make decisions that will hinder their career - you can get pregnant and pause/end your career, or you can dedicate yourself to your career and delay having children, but you cannot do both.

But apparently it's impossible for a transwoman to continue competing in the male sex category because they would lose any competitive advantage if they took hormones etc. Well, make your choice - don't take the hormones, or take them and accept that you may lose some competitive advantage?

There’s another point here:

Setting aside the validation aspect, we are told it’s unfair for TW to compete in their own sex category because if they wish to pursue physical transition (as is their ‘right’) then they will be disadvantaged re their ‘right’ to participate competitively in sport.

And yet here are women making that choice and sacrifice all the time and just cracking on with it: by pursuing a ‘right’ to have children, women must accept that this will impact on their ‘right’ to compete, and they may be disadvantaged compared to other women who do not have children.

Sometimes there are costs to choices that must be accepted, we can’t always have all the things, and need to decide what is most important.

@Horizons83 I’m so sorry! I read through the thread earlier this morning and when I picked up my phone now I didn’t re read and see you have made the same point.

What a doofus.

Clearly I second your comment

Great minds @PoTayToes80 😀

Also pregnancy at 40+ comes with more risks. A man wouldn't need to delay having children in the same way and could have them much younger with no impact on their bodies.

She was also out for a long time with that foot injury after Wimbledon in 2010 followed by an embolism. She didn't win another Grand Slam for 2 years after that
Without that injury she would certainly have won more tournaments.