Tavistock clinic going to be discussed on Jeremy Vine R2 show at 1.00 today!

[Appalonia]

Heads up for anyone interested. I don't know who will be on the show discussing this, but may be worth a listen?

Hope it's better that Woman's Hour this morning. Had to turn off in disgust

Yes it is indeed strange that the capture of the clinic by SW ideology , the personnel who truly believed, and the fact that if you think your body isn’t yours , you already have a ginormous mental ill health problem, were not even mentioned. A good opportunity squandered. If I believed that any of my emails were read at womanshouryourviews@ I would complain, but there’s no evidence that they ever do.

Having listened to him trailing the discussion I'm not certain he's really on top of what is actually happening. I expect he will put on his extra special, 'trans issues' voice which will make me want to scream at him.

Expect a full bingo card of: huge waiting lists; mis-use of suicide fears; 'wrong body' etc.

Did you turn off while the parent was on? It got better after that I thought, and the health correspondent explained the history of the last few years quite clearly.

True. Those vital bits weren't mentioned. But they did mention the over-representation of girls, girls with ASD, and girls with trauma and MH, and that any treatment going forward needs to be holistic and MH-based.

That's disappointing as I'd heard that Hannah Barnes was interviewed and she was very effective and powerful in summarising the whistleblowing history and the sheer longevity of the concerns that had been raised in re: GIDS.

I really can't bear his special voice on this subject. He's the chess-playing pigeon living embodiment of Dunning & Kruger.

I can't bear to listen to JV on this issue as his special soft voice when he talks to TWs does my head in.

I imagine it will be very biased and they will either say it is a terrible thing, or say that it is only to allow more clinics to be rolled out, not talk about the mismanagement of gender identity referrals or lack of follow up care and data

Hannah Barne’s was v clear I thought. What was issue with her interview?

I think I must have turned it off before Hannah Barnes. I heard Anita Rani bemoaning that now children who didn't identify with the gender they were assigned at birth had no help any more.

That must have been irritating. Cass is very clear that there will be a transition to the tertiary centres that will take over existing care and thereafter will be the referral centres.

Lucy Bannerman, Times journalist, excellent!

Lucy was excellent. The mum was reasonable, but she has to believe what she did was right. Glad to hear David Bell now

Good to hear David Bell describe the reality of what happened rather than Tyler's experience

David Bell gives what JV calls a 'devastating critique ' of Tavistock!

Am shocked that this is finally being discussed on the BBC in such a reasonable way!

Jeremy enquired as to whether, even if they threw all the money in the world at the service, it would be safe? He's
not stupid. He doesn't buy into this stuff at all.

Bell calling it a "very peculiar service." Yes, and it has always been in plain sight" the Gender Identity Development Service. An organisation whose role, clearly stated in the name, was to 'encourage' children - we aren't allowed to use the g-word on this site - into the belief in a newly invented concept called a 'gender identity'. I read somewhere that its founder originally wanted to be a priest.

And we have a parent highlighting the exact issues - boy likes girls toys so must be a girl.

It feels like the Berlin wall crumbling, hopefully in time for three teenagers I know, two of whose parents are attention-seekers and all for it.

Individual anecdotes are not data - the limited data shows that GIDS rushed children into puberty blockers, and then adult hormones and surgery. And the data is limited because Tavistock didn't bother (or for specific reasons chose not to collect data)

That was my take way from it. Very clear message, Bell was excellent pointing out that Tyler would have had, back in 2015, one of the sceptical psych's, which is why he got such good treatment and, presumably, a good long term outcome.

Very clear that the issues is with GIDS as an organisation, not the kids, the parents etc. The organisation and its lack of honesty.

Hannah Barnes has posted up a useful and detailed timeline, with references to key articles and videos, on Twitter.

twitter.com/hannahsbee/status/1552979640062558208

Wow. Pleasantly surprised by the BBC.

David Bell cut through the nonsense like a steel sword. It was factually brutal. He said he has met several young people with deep regrets and ruined lives including, I imagine, Keira Bell. I sensed quite a lot of underlying anger, finely controlled and aimed with perfect precision.

I felt very sorry for the mother. If I were in her shoes I'd keep on repeating the 'born in the wrong body' mantra to myself everyday as well. Better than facing the reality of supporting my daughter to remove her perfectly healthy breasts. That's a truth I couldn't admit to and live with. So I'd be a bastion of TMAM as well and keep praying my child is happy. No other choice really.

Wow. Pleasantly surprised by the BBC.

I am too, sort of. David Bell did a great interview with PM yesterday, Sue Evans did another excellent one with Today this morning, and then Hannah Barnes was very good on Woman's Hour.

Excellent. Well done, Beeb. But...

They recognise a sinking ship when they see one, don't they? They have been pushing this ideology for years, and a Today producer said he refused to have a "horrid old Terf" on the programme. For years Woman's Hour refused to touch the subject. Graham Linehan was roasted on Newsnight for saying exactly what Hilary Cass is saying now. So the BBC owe us all (and Graham in particular) a massive apology for having pushed this ideology on us uncritically for several years.