Forstater and Bailey outcomes making waves in the HR world

[Metabigot]

Our solicitor came for a training session and whilst most of the content was not trans related he dropped in at the end the Bailey and Forstater rulings and advised us to be aware and update policies etc. He said it's going to be interesting times. Especially if a trans and GC both feel discriminated by the other.

I don't think he gets gender critical as he seemed to think it (Gc views) would be abhorrent for some (trans) but acknowledged the need to account for GC views as protected characteristics. And I confirmed all PCs are equal under the Equality Act.

I can't say how much difference these rulings are making in the HR/employment sector. At last we can speak openly.

Maya and Alison so brave to put themselves through this. Thank you both if you read this.

Lots of people at my work west rainbow lanyards (not NHS but public sector). It appears this morning a comment was removed from the internal chat thingy that,reading between the lines, was probably deemed transphobic. There was mention of two recent court cases but spinning the line that these two cases didn't give people the right to harass others and free speech didn't mean you could 'proselytise'.

Not a safe space for women who believe biology exists and is immutable. Can't bring my whole self to work, so it's certainly not inclusive. This is the place that in a discussion about women's health, we couldn't ask a question about dehumanising language (cervix havers, womb carriers) because there was no trans representation on the call so it wouldn't be fair. There's no such strictures placed on the discussion about men's health next week.

Aaaand this is why political lobbying has no place in the work environment (unless someone’s a political lobbyist). If everyone starts wearing party political badges or rainbow lanyards or orange sashes and bowler hats etc to work, then peaceful cooperative work becomes impossible. Starts with a rainbow shoelace to be “inclusive” ends up like Northern Ireland / Yugoslavia. Humans are a tribal species: we organise into groups then fight other groups for territory, whether that’s farmland, or space on someone’s lapel. Want peace / an absence of lawsuits? Don’t politicise the work environment…

HR departments should listen very closely to their lawyers over the next few weeks and also they should google “Nicholas Meriwether compensation”

Thank you Maya and Alison, very few people have the integrity and strength that you’ve shown. I’m so sorry for how you were treated.

HR departments should listen very closely to their lawyers over the next few weeks and also they should google “Nicholas Meriwether compensation”

UK HR Depts may not be that concerned about settlements in the US if I googled the correct one.

Depending on the outcome of legislation in Scotland, they may be more caught up in having consistent policies throughout the UK and resolving differences created by legislation that is not necessarily recognised outside Scotland within the UK.

Are gay rights under threat? Why do they require everyone's support?

Gay rights are under threat. Support for LGBT has dropped year on year over the past three years, because people don’t support trans activism.

They already have.

I will not be coerced into wearing a rainbow lanyard (NHS). When i wear my uniform that alone says i will treat everyone with dignity and respect i do not need to advertise that i will treat one particular group as such.

What does it say about those that do not wear the lanyard.....that we are not approachable to anyone other than heterosexuals......

Equality for any cause should never supersede any other cause. Equality does not mean power for one over the other. End of story.
I agree with a policy of no badges, rainbow lanyards etc. Name badge and maybe position/rank and a corporate coloured lanyard is all that is required. Any other symbol is political and is counter productive. Banning ALL badges etc. is equalising things too.

On the topic of NHS workers wearing badges, I was in hospital a while ago and two of the nurses had rainbow lanyards with pins on them. One nurse had a trans flag, non binary flag, and they pronoun pin. The other had a trans flag, and a “please respect my pronouns, they are she / her” pin (they were a trans woman). Now, I’m a member of the LGB community myself and I felt it was a bit much. I wouldn’t dream of wearing a bisexual badge to work. But it also got me thinking. The nurses were perfectly lovely and professional, and I had no problem with them being trans. But what if I had required intimate care and asked for a woman instead of the trans woman? Or what if they found out I was gender critical? Would I be treated the same way? I would feel exactly the same, by the way, if staff had over the top displays of religion. Would I be treated just as well if they knew I was an atheist?

Yep

Actually, how about sunflower lanyards for hidden disabilities?

Gay rights are under threat. Support for LGBT has dropped year on year over the past three years, because people don’t support trans activism.

I think that's part of why TRAs are so insistent that T demands are chained to LGB rights, as they know public support will plummet once they are unmoored. The unhinged animosity towards eg the LGB Alliance from the start is very telling. There simply cannot be allowed to be an alternative.

People with hidden disabilities and their carers if they have one are perfectly welcome to wear sunflower lanyards, we have patients who attend regularly wonder carers wear sunflower lanyards. Difference is these are people cared for in the community with their individual carers, to alert other public to their particular needs.
It's not about staff showing their affiliation.

@Tallisker
If you haven't seen this paper I recommend it. Next time there is a discussion about language I suggest you refer to it. I keep a printed copy in my bag and have given copies to colleagues as well as posting it on the intranet site we have.

www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fgwh.2022.818856/full

I particularly like this bit from the conclusion:

"We suggest consideration of the following questions: How can I be clear? How can I include the people who should be included and exclude the people who should be excluded? How can I ensure that people understand what I mean and can readily recognize themselves? How can I avoid dehumanizing language? Does it make sense to apply a gendered understanding of words or a sexed understanding? Am I engaging in cultural imperialism or improper use of privilege by requiring others to use language in a particular way?"

I shan't hesitate to make accusations of cultural imperialism and improper use of privilege should the occasion arise.

@JosephineGH Homophobia is on the increase in my teenagers' generation, or at least is still quite nasty.

Personal experience is not a proof, but it's quite widespread, not just my opinion.

And in my personal experience this homophobic is directed mostly at gender-non-conforming lesbians, or those that look like they could be.

As it ever was, but nastier/more frequent.

You're right @JosephineGH, no threat to the legal rights, as far as I know.

Thank you Fanny, very useful

Good for her! Snoopy is a genuinely friendly and inclusive cartoon character. The Stonewall rainbow expresses hostility to women who don't want to give our rights away, and to anyone who questions trans ideology. As a woman, I would feel uncomfortable, possibly even unsafe, with a healthcare worker wearing signs of allegiance to a misogynistic ideology.