Irish Times - ex Minister of Justice on 'trans rights'

[PearlClutch]

'For the great, great majority, gender-based language, thought, concepts and social convention are really part of what we are – just as central to our personalities as the identity-convictions of trans people are to them. It isn’t a question of thoughtlessness.

That trans people experience rejection as a consequence of our civilisation’s social recognition and distinctions of sex and gender does not confer on them an absolute human right to erase gendered thought and language on a widespread basis.'

Interesting thought - most often feminists come from an angle of being critical of gender, but here is someone (sorry, I'm not up on Irish politics so I don't really know much about him) positing that for many people their desire to maintain 'gender based' language is equally as legitimate as a desire to avoid or erase it.

www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2022/07/20/trans-rights-a-question-of-reasonableness-and-common-sense/

I'm really surprised at the attitude of the Irish towards controlling language considering their history.

'The first British Law enacted in Ireland which specifically banned the use of the Irish language was Article III of The Statute of Kilkenny from 1367 which made it illegal for English colonists in Ireland to speak the Irish language and for the native Irish to speak their language when interacting with them.11 Oct 2018'

I said this on the Craicnet thread too, but I think the article, which I agree is useful and a welcome change for the IT, will be dismissed/ignored by many for being written by Michael McDowell who is pretty right wing.

I am interested in who is not writing about this topic from the IT. Roisin Ingle hasn't, as far as I know, said a word either way. She knows. Fintan O'Toole has also edged closer to seeing the wood for the trees but has been quiet for a while now. I think when/if they break cover it will be important.

@PleasantBirthday I too am a subscriber...better to be inside the tent etc.?
I am also on the Irish Times reader panel rewards thingy. So I get an email approximately monthly asking my views on the quality of the paper etc. What stories do I follow? Are there any stories that I would like covered in the IT.
For the last several months, I have answered referencing Kathleen Stock, Maya Forstater, Allison Bailey.
UK law is still referenced as precedent (AFAIK, IANAL) so the ongoing nature of, and the outcomes of their cases, should be known in Irish legal/political circles. The Irish Times ("paper of record" yada yada)is surely aware of the various sides to the issue, and the viciousness of one side. If I can do anything to support a balanced debate in a paper with the influence of the IT, then I will.

A Mumsnet first for me: first time an ad hominem attack has been aimed at me.

Roisin Ingle hasn't, as far as I know, said a word either way. She knows

I'm really not sure she does, unfortunately. Based on her Women's Podcasts interviews & some references in her interviews for IT. I agree she doesn't seem to have addressed it in her opinion columns.

Eg

www.facebook.com/1463017114027244/posts/pfbid02EJ1KH56f5Zbx9SYumkoAqLJY54GQ8WD6rdAW3GExPoUNAwKtt1BqUyjSuRD7QmnSl/

Interesting. I haven't listened to the Women's Podcast since Kathy Sheridan introduced Amy Huberman as "the wife of Brian O'Driscoll". On international Women's Day 🙄. I'm not going to give up on Roisin though. She has written some very good pieces about things only women (the traditional kind) experience and she supported Suzanne Moore.

And look where that got her! All the kinds of people whose opinions she normally shares turned on her like sharks sensing blood. It was shocking to see.

Well, Scotland had similar with Gaelic, and look at the state of our gov ...

Yes, it was, but she didn't reverse ferret. Afaik she simply left it there, without comment, defense or apology. And I remember Paul Howard supporting her right to support Suzanne Moore. Naturally he didn't get the same treatment.

It means you've hit a nerve. Grats!

Good article- sensible, balanced and compassionate. We welcome the grown ups to the room. (And obviously congratulations Jellysaurus on your first ad hom)

Wokus Dei ....genius. I think of Teni as a little day Legion of Mary. All the snitching and bitching but none of the charitable work.

Wokus Dei is a Glinner invention. Wish I could claim credit

Well @Gubu I've always hated McDowell's politics or at least his economics , while respecting his intellect.

But you are right , it needs someone on the left to send up a rocket. If it's a person of the stature of O Toole it would embolden others?

Fair Play to Glinner! I hope he gets his show on the road - literally and metaphorically.

Fr Ted , Black Books , the IT Crowd , Count Arthur Strong. What a CV. And those creeps dragged him down. 😡

I am totally, utterly amazed - Ides posted without mention of “penis and testicles”…. @JellySaurus - you have indeed made an impression 🤭💐