Competitions for Girls

[kikiterrific]

Hi all

It is a known fact that in the UK, the number of females studying Computer Science is low, and has not increased. There is a lot of research carried out as to why this is the case, with various factors highlighted, such as lack of role models, lack of same sex peers, support from schools, support at home and so on.

To try and encourage more young girls to study this subject area, there are various competitions in place to whet their appetite and get them interested. CyberFirst Girls is one such competition: www.ncsc.gov.uk/cyberfirst/girls-competition

I have been looking at the finer detail today, and noticed that it is open to 'students that identify as female'. This makes me feel uncomfortable, but no doubt many will tell me that the feeling I have inside is actually transphobia.

How do others feel? I am interested to hear thoughts.

It's not good.

I don't know if there are stats but there doesn't seem to be any shortage of TW in tech.

'identify as female' isn't in the least 'inclusive' ... presumably 'trans boys' and girls who are identifying as 'nonbinary' may be deterred from entering.

There was a computer Class that DS used to go up.

It was pretty good, and they advertised a % of their classes offered for children who were ‘disadvantaged’ - great, because the classes weren’t cheap, so good that they have a chance to attend. Then they went full ‘disadvantaged’ (I assume they were being funded) and stopped paid-for classes.

They they were promoting a ‘getting girls onto coding’ classes which I thought I’d send to some friends - then I read the blurb and yes included boys who ‘identify as girls’ (bearing in mind this was primary school aged kids classes).

what a joke.

Standard these days tbh! If you look closely at any programme to improve the lives & aspirations of women and girls or to reward them for their achievements it inevitably says “those who identify as women/girls/female/NB”

it’s why I gave zero patience for the “beee kind how does it affect you” crowd. They’ve happily ensured absolutely nothing can be for women & girls of the actual born female kind, no it has to be open to men & boys too. So much lost ground that had ti be regained - if it ever can

Our work ran events to get children interested in coding

Two ransoms observations

Schools who paired girl boy led to the boys aggressively pushing girls off the mouse and keyboard and hogging the system - I got rather cross at the way teachers allowed that to happen repeatedly

Girls and boys are socialised too treat competition differently

Huge drop off in interest at puberty except in all girls schools

I was that girl - mousy and ‘nice’. My sister would have punched him on the nose and wrested them to the ground….

My DD is a talented scientist and I keep her away from these schemes as I would honestly rather she succeeded on her own terms. I am all for encouraging low income and working class kids who do not have social capital but these schemes don't tend to attract working class girls and anyway and now they are mixed sex they seem rather pointless.

“those who identify as women/girls/female/NB”

At least that doesn't exclude part of the target audience like just 'identify as women/girls', I suppose.

I'm glad my DD had the opportunity to go to an all girls' school. She did electronic products and comp sci GCSEs - along with lots of others, two classfuls of the latter. All the science events/ competitions - obviously intended for girls, no boys to dominate. (She did note some of the interactions in mixed teams in competitions - girls pushed back to 'helping' the boys.). She helped run the robotics club. Nowadays I daresay some of the girls in that school may be experimenting with their identities but they're still in this environment where girls can do anything.

Girls and women are not allowed to have anything that is just for them anymore. It is sad. Girls will stop participating in competitive sport if men are allowed to self identify and steal the wins.

When people asked me how I got interested in science my initial answer is always 'I went to a girls school'. Single sex education seems a very outdated concept now and I've been shot down in discussions where I state why I prefer it (for girls of course, it doesn't actually advantage boys, and that's obviously one of the reasons it is being eradicated).

You're not being transphobic to focus on girls (natal).

The thing is, because of gendered stereotypes and the socialisation of girls and boys into gendered roles, from before birth, such roles & stereotypes often feel "natural." And one of those stereotypes is that girls/women's brains aren't good at rationality, and science/maths especially.

It's bullshit of course. So we have to make extra effort to reverse such socialisation & conditioning for girls (pity we can't encourage boys to understand, own, and express emotion other than anger). A boy "identifying as" a girl has been socialised/conditioned as a boy, and so has all the advantage in such competitions.

This isn't transphobic to note.

But it is in the interests of gender ideology extremists to distort any female-centred ideas or activities and recast them as "transphobic" when such ideas or activities have nothing to do with transpeople.

But men don't like us to focus on girls and women.

The great thing about a girls's school is that in them, girls are the point - they're not the 'second sex', they're the default. One of the problems with special initiatives for girls is that, though they're well intentioned and in some cases may be necessary and helpful, they are almost inevitably 'othering'.

I too am dismayed by the number of awards that claim to be for women are actually open to men identifying as women. Kind of defeats the object.

I think it was a rail engineering group that as part of a series of awards and recognition for women, offered an award to the most supportive male. Lets not forget that the men need to be included and centred in women's achievements !

open to 'students that identify as female'.

Thats transphobic. The purpose of the initiatives is to address the fact that 'the number of females studying Computer Science is low, and has not increased.' - yet they use a wording which excludes trans females.

But somehow this sort of transphobia is ok if it's to the detriment of female trans people and to the benefit of male trans people. Funny, that.

These are generally kids things - they aren’t trans anything (legally).

I think it was a rail engineering group that as part of a series of awards and recognition for women, offered an award to the most supportive male. Lets not forget that the men need to be included and centred in women's achievements !

I'm not sure I agree that's necessarily problematic, An award for a man in that case may demonstrate that the societal problems which affect women shouldn't just be down to women to solve. I'm thinking in particular of a guy who won an award for a scheme he devised and (crucially) got train companies to adopt, for them to provided free transport for women and their children who needed to flee domestic abuse.

Well it makes no sense at all. Why have a competition to encourage females into tech and then potentially give the award away to a biological male?

This doesn't help the problem it seeks to improve. And again, this is forcing acceptance of an ideology on all the participants. Bizarre and this competition could make matters worse if the winner is trans. It would deter females surely?

The word transphobia these days is a meaningless thought terminating term designed to stop you thinking any further on a subject. It piggy backs onto the term homophobia which is meaningful because we understand what it signifies and no-one reasonable would want to be accused of that. Transphobia is so often applied to anyone trying to question or discuss anything relating to sex. So I would say your discomfort is to be listened to, but the culture is causing you to second guess yourself by the frequent throwing around of that term. I have stopped trying to defend myself from it any longer, it is simply a silencing technique.

This is a good articulation of what is going on with me.

So what is the next step? Should we be speaking out against these competitions? Contacting the organisors?

But it wasn't an award for providing a solution that helped women. I've looked it up now and it was the Women in Rail Awards

https://womeninrail.org/awards/categories/

So the categories are for Inspirational Woman of the Year, Female Apprentice of the Year etc etc, and then we have Inspirational Man of the Year. It just jarred for me.