Can you play competitive sport and take testosterone?

[Distractable]

Is it legal for sportspeople to take testosterone and still play competitive team sports?

I'm just trying to work out why this would not be doping, even on a mixed team. The East Germans who beat Sharron Davies in the 80s didn't grow beards, so were they taking smaller doses than Verity Smith? If testosterone is taken and then stopped, does its effect continue in a female body?

Most of this article is talking about trans women, but Verity Smith is surely given an unfair advantage if they are taking androgens?

metro.co.uk/2022/07/14/im-a-trans-man-who-plays-rugby-im-sick-of-how-im-being-treated-16980374/

Well I've read the article, tedious and painful as that was, conveniently does not mention transmen on testosterone at all 🤷🏻‍♀️ despite it being a first person account of a transman. The article is almost completely about transwomen in women's sport. How curious.

It does mention that the transman in the article used to play on the women's team despite having gender dysphoria, now plays mixed sex/disabled... Appears never to have played men's sport.

No mention at all about the huge conundrum of female people on banned performance enhancing drugs playing sports.

You'd have thought TRA would have addressed this years ago with all their high profile activism.

Somehow destroying women's sports to advance the opportunities for those with a penis has been a huge campaigning focus, while properly addressing how all trans people meaning those born male AND those born female, can safely and fairly compete, hasn't been campaigned for at all.

Absolutely outrageous. Men can play on men's teams and women on women's teams, anyone doping can't play at all.

I think we're going to see more females fronting these kinds of stories, now that people are starting to wake up to men in women's sports.

And what exactly does this person want? From the article it seems like one big category for women who don't dope, women who do dope and men who say they are women. No thank you.

As I understand, it, F2M trans athletes have in the main preferred to stay in the female category [I can't think why] but to do so legally they need to delay T therapy [e.g. see www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10382603/Male-transgender-swimmer-Iszac-Henig-came-teammates-year-did-NOT-testosterone.html (I believe that M2F trans athlete LT lost this race because it was in a distance well outside her usual speciality)]

I think F2M trans athletes competing against men comes up rarely enough/with little enough success that the rules around it aren't at all high profile, but I believe that anyone on T therapy needs a 'medical exemption'. Common sense would, I suppose, dictate that synthetically boosted T levels in a F2M trans athlete would be acceptable provided they stayed roughly within the normal male range? Generally I'd expect 'be kind' to come out on top here because F2Ms will always be restricted to some degree by their smaller skeletons and so on. Obviously a really huge amount of synthetic T can push female strength well above normal male levels (e.g. see something like tinyurl.com/tdh24a8z), but given the skeleton etc issue not beyond elite level

World rugby rules say that F->M trans athletes need to provide "confirmation of their physical capabilities" before being allowed to play with men, but there's a specific safety angle there.

I'd read that a testosterone-taking transman might be able to compete with a Theraputic Use Exemption, but I'm not sure if that is true, or has been tested in a real situation (or indeed if it would apply to female as well as male events). Funnily enough -as mentioned - they all seem to remain competing without testosterone in the female category, which must be very dysphoria-inducing.

TWAW, other than in limited stations such as the inheritance of land etc where male designation is advantageous, in which case TWAM.

TMAM, other than for sporting purposes (and possibly in other limited situations where female designation is advantageous), in which case TMAW.

• situations.

puffy: exactly so - trans people can choose which sex class to be in on a case by case basis,. depending on what suits them best.

Boring normal people have to stay in their lane in order to provide validation.

WADA info for physicians on TUE process for gender affirming drug treatment:

www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/2022-01/TUE%20Physician%20Guidelines_Transgender%20Athletes_Final%20%28January%202022%29.pdf

T levels should be within the normal range for the gender identity.

That policy is completely pointless. It says....

"it is important that the criteria for the granting of a TUE ensure that both transgender male and transgender female athletes have physiological androgen exposure within the ranges of the non-transgender male and non-transgender female athletes with whom they compete. Some sports organizations may define upper limits or threshold values of testosterone for athletes who want to participate in the female category in their sport."

And those sports organisations have typically set the thresholds far above typical female levels.

It’s not so much a policy and more the process to monitor otherwise banned substances though - in line with what the WGBs/ NGBs set as limits.

And yes, I agree the wording is nonsense, especially the line Since testosterone is the critical factor influencing performance in sports because we know that current levels don’t negate the advantages bestowed by T during puberty.

And yes, I agree the wording is nonsense, especially the line Since testosterone is the critical factor influencing performance in sports because we know that current levels don’t negate the advantages bestowed by T during puberty.

Moreover, we have had evidence of this since the 1970s and 80s where despite being doped with testosterone the East German elite female swimmers still didn't achieve male times.

Wonder if any able bodied people are allowed in the wheelchair league? Or do categories actually mean things and exclude in order to assure fairness?

I feel bad for this person who clearly had a very traumatic life.

I feel desperately sorry for this poor person but that's a seriously bad article with muddled categories and emotional splurge. It sounds very much like a toddler who wants what they want. It would be great to have TM and TW compete in sport but, to get there, we need a sensible, balanced discussion so that we don't exclude or disadvantage others (like all women). This means not getting upset when women are invited to speak and when they point out some really uncomfortable facts.

Haven't looked at the article but females won't be able to get a TUE to compete in the women's category on T. You can and will get one to compete in the men's category but as mentioned before, so few transmen (i.e., none) are at the top of their sport that nobody really cares.

TUE for FtM is to allow them to compete in the male category.

And you’re right that they won’t be competitive because increasing T levels in a female body doesn’t make them anything like males that have undergone male puberty.