Hadley Freeman interview with Sarah Surviving (suing rape crisis centre)

[ARoombaOfOnesOwn]

unherd.com/2022/07/why-im-suing-survivors-network/

So far several women questioning Sarah’s actions on Twitter - under Hadley’s tweet, Sonia Sodha’s tweet and Unherd’s account. Several men commenting on Unherd support her and question the men who would do this.

Thank you for sharing this OP. I knew Hadley would do a great job writing about my experience and I'm really happy with the article.

She's one of the best feminist journalists there is.

Diana who posted a fair bit under the original tweet appears to have comprehension issues as despite being told many many times that Sarah is not demanding transwomen be excluded from SN only that a female only group be added to the list of mixed sex and trans only groups already in place she still accused Sarah of demanding transwomen be excluded from SN!!!

I'm so glad Sarah's story is getting more sunlight, what she went through is horrible, victimised all over again.

I still can't quite believe that a rape crisis centre is prioritising men's feelings over women's need for a single sex space - the level of betrayal is horrific. And challenging the EHRC for upholding single sex spaces? What the hell is wrong with them?

The phrase 'so open minded their brains fell out' seems appropriate.

A lot of people have accused me of this.

The misleading statement from Survivors Network and article in Pink News haven't helped.

Hi Sarah pleased to know you are still on MN 😁

A lot of people have accused me of this.

The misleading statement from Survivors Network and article in Pink News haven't helped.

I know the "statement" they provided was ridiculous and frankly misleading.
You can tell who has read about your case and who hasn't by the way they repeat the lie that you want transwomen excluded from rape services.

It blows my mind that many people and I think the majority are women are happy to ignore your trauma as a SAS at the hands of males in favour of supporting males in all female spaces just as Diane has done on twitter.

And they have a seperate group for TW, right?
So how on earth can they say NO to a women's only group?
If women and transwomen are indistinguishable then how do they know who goes to the TW group?

It's fine. They can 100% rely on female socialisation to ensure no women will turn up in a group she's not supposed to be in.

It seems part of the mindset of this political movement to interpret 'I don't have absolutely everything and more/higher priority than everyone else' as equating 'I have nothing!'

That distorted thinking is a problem for the thinker that they need help with, but the help is learning less anxiety producing thinking and managing anxiety better; not everyone else placating them by handing over all their resources.

The argument about the stats on Twitter is interesting, another example of trying to have it both ways. If Trans women are such a tiny minority that 1 murder a year actually is disproportionately huge violence against them, then why do we need 10 groups serving this minuscule amount of people?

The misleading statement from Survivors Network and article in Pink News haven't helped.
Do you think they believe it helps them to be dishonest? It's so odd. I guess it's worked for Boris etc - just say what you want people to believe and by the time they've figured out you weren't being honest you're on to the next thing 'the people care about'.

Good luck Sarah. It's a scandal that you even have to do this @IamSarah . Solidarity from Ireland

I hadn't read your story in full before Sarah so first of all 💐

I'm pleased Hadley Freeman interviewed you, I think she's the best in the business. I'm just sorry, although not surprised, that her usual employer, the Guardian, presumably wouldn't touch it.

Surely, surely the Survivors Network just needs to have multiple groups and privately ask people 'Are you happy for your group to include transwomen?'

Then women who are OK with that idea get a choice of groups, and women who need a single-sex group get what they need.

It could be that those women who so adamantly oppose the idea of any single-sex spaces for women in rape crisis counseling have staked their own beliefs on trans women absolutely being women #nodebate, and if that is the case, then they will reject any call for single-sex female spaces.

When values are viewed as ranked, this would mean that the support for trans women's gender identity ranks higher than any of the arguments that could be made for defending single-sex female spaces. They view trans women as more oppressed than women, and the harassment and violence the former face as more severe and more important to address.

It must ultimately be about validation, because nobody is excluding trans women from having access to most of the counseling groups. But having even one additional group for people of the female sex means that they are not validated as belonging to that group, and this doesn't comply with "trans women are women #nodebate."

I don't know if getting good data on actual rates of rape and sexual violence and who it is who is mostly victimised by it would be helpful here or not. My guess is that it wouldn't make any difference at all, because what is being debated really is the question of what a woman is.

It's so simple, isn't it?
It just proves that the real motive is something else.

Otherwise why on earth would those claiming to be exactly the same as women have so little solidarity for women?

It could be that those women who so adamantly oppose the idea of any single-sex spaces for women in rape crisis counseling have staked their own beliefs on trans women absolutely being women #nodebate, and if that is the case, then they will reject any call for single-sex female spaces.

I see your point, but no, I can't see that they truly believe TWAW.

They are not treating TW as they treat women; they have two very different standards of treatment and viewed entitlement and it is wholly sexed based . Quite how much they are lying to themselves to be able to rationalise in their heads, I don't know. There's a whole lot of status and self congratulation and lovely mummy/noble saviour feelings that become obvious quite quickly in many discussions. (#codependence)

It is nothing more exciting than a fixed belief that males must be served by females, and females must be subordinated. It's millenia old misogyny and sexism. And it's unacceptable.

Male people's diverse needs can and should be met, and not ever by sacrificing females to gratify or placate them. Aesop's fable of dog in the manger is highly appropriate reading.

Artichokeleaves
They are not treating TW as they treat women; they have two very different standards of treatment and viewed entitlement and it is wholly sexed based . Quite how much they are lying to themselves to be able to rationalise in their heads, I don't know. There's a whole lot of status and self congratulation and lovely mummy/noble saviour feelings that become obvious quite quickly in many discussions. (#codependence)

Exactly, they're not actually treated like women at all - if they were they would be ignored and disregarded easily. In fact, they are treated like very special men.

I think for some women, men's supremacy is so ingrained, the idea that a man would voluntarily give up his 'superior male' status, and deign to join us in the cheap seats, means that we should always be oh so pathetically grateful for his presence among us unworthy ones.

See also: women fawning over Debbie Hayton.

Thanks for this, off to look.

Hadders and Sonia are awesome

It's good to know that you are happy with the article, Sarah. If only The Guardian truly appreciated Hadley's strengths.

Sarah, you are so brave, I wish you success in your case!

Thanks OP for sharing, excellent article,

Sarah - support your cause and well done for your courage.

I see there is also an opportunity to support (not sure if MN allows links) via crowd ?

Thank you Sarah for not walking away. You are so brave. Do you need us to do a little gardening for you?

Have to say I'm now struggling to find any negative comments under Harley's tweet of this.

A lot of men posting in support too.

I hope you're ok IamSarah

HADLEY!