Not sure about this

[FrankReynolds]

I've always been very pro-trans and pro-equality and considered myself an ally to people of all flavours. I thought that being a feminist and being pro-trans didn't have to be mutually exclusive and I was uncomfortable with any views that are considered "TERF"

But

I've just seen this post on Insta and it's making me question a lot of what I believe in that area. As a queer person (married to a bloke but not straight), it's something I've been wrestling with. Can anyone shed some light on the issue? And why this particular post has made me so uncomfortable and conflicted?

My sexuality came into it because I was explaining how I'd previously described myself as a cis woman but now am not really sure why. It was something I repressed for a long time and it had a big effect on my opinion of myself and my schema. It felt relevant to what I was saying and my attempt to briefly describe myself and my values. Perhaps I should reflect on why I felt it necessary to use my sexuality to qualify my beliefs.

How is using language that dehumanizes half the world’s population ‘inclusive’ or ‘more accurate’?

More accurate? Maybe except that reducing a human to body parts then may require further clarification that it is a human body part and not any other mammal.

And then, doesn’t reducing pregnancy down to body parts then remove the human female factor completely. Because l can reasonably say that as a human female, I would process the experience very differently to an ape.

And it is hardly inclusive to communicate in a way that a section of the population cannot easily and quickly understand.

The group of the human population that asserts this detached language is ‘inclusive’ is missing the rest of the sentence. It is ‘inclusive to trans people’ who wish to detach their bodily experiences from being based in what that sexed body is.

But it is NOT inclusive to humans with a raft of unique needs that require communication to be easy to understand , with prior knowledge of anatomy, and quick to process.

It is a lie that people pushing a particular political agenda keep repeating because they have been shown what not believing that lie means. Only someone hateful and bigoted would not believe so and those people deserve all the threats and all the hate thrown at them.

And that is just the first part of that sentence…. That is free from grammatical accuracy and that is not inclusive or accurate either.

"Cis" has nothing to do with sexuality though. It's about gender identity and if you are happy to be described as conforming with stereotypes of femininity, or if you're happy being described as a subset of women where the larger set now includes male bodied people (ie transwomen).

"Queer" is still for very many people a pejorative term that they wouldn't use to describe themselves. I think as bisexual women in long term relationships with men, we have to realise that we face basically none of the possible prejudice and negative responses that people who are in same sex relationships experience. I suppose pretty much the only thing is the assumption that you are heterosexual and that all your past relationships were opposite sex. Which is annoying but not a big deal.

OP that whole twitter post comes across like a male telling females what they need and what they need to accept and reject. I have no idea who that person is and I am making the judgement from the content and the tone of the words used.

If this person considers themselves a feminist, maybe they are very young and have no fucking notion of what feminists have fought for over the decades. They have such a regressive view on what ‘females’ think and understand.

Or, do young feminists honestly believe they have to have children to be considered a woman?

exactly this. I've seen this kind of logical reversal used all over the place.

Completely agree

Just to compare-yesterday my son was beaten up (not badly, he managed to get away quickly) when standing up for his lesbian friend. 14 yr old baby butch holding hands with girlfriend was enough to provoke a bunch of homophobic boys to attack. 5-10 15-year boys, picking on an obvious lesbian. In London, in 2022.

That is what oppression means. Gender non-confirming young lesbian, her girlfriend and her (bisexual, not that it matters) male friend being attacked, physically, for being who they are.

And I'll never, ever, forgive Stonewall for this backlash against gays, lesbians and, sometimes, bisexuals, due to Stonewalls's overreach in conflating unreasonable T demands with LGB - my, and my children's sexual orientations!

It's here, as predicted, and guess who's suffering? Do you think it's those that IDENTIFY as queer, whilst having a 'straight-passing privilege', or those obvious baby dykes?

About a year ago I came to the realisation that I'm most likely bisexual. I've never had a sexual experience with or dated a woman (or in fact anyone in the last decade) so it's all rather academic at this point. I've told almost no-one I know, beyond a small number of close lesbian friends, because it feels like I'm jumping on some kind of woke bandwagon.

Don't worry@Truthlikeness , I think you calling yourself plain old bisexual rules you out of the 'woke' set. I think the sanctioned term is now 'bi', if you have to be a weird 'non-pansexual' person.

So go forth and explore your newly-realised sexuality, if you manage to find anywhere to actually meet the 'old-fashioned'( in Ricky Gervais-parlance) lesbian/bisexual women, there's much fun to be had

Here, here. People are conflating the pressure they feel from stonewall and the trans activists with the average LGB community. I actually think it is harder, now, to be gay/lesbian/bi than it was 5-10 years ago as there is so much suspicion about.

I hope your son and his friends are ok LK1972, what a terrible thing to happen to them. 💐

And I’ll never, ever forgive Stonewall for this backlash against gays, lesbians and, sometimes, bisexuals due to Stonewall’s overreach in conflating unreasonable T demands with LGB …

Well said, I completely agree. I feel there was more acceptance of my lesbian relationships 20 years ago than there is now, we’ve gone backwards. And Stonewall had a big part to play in that: it feels like a major betrayal.

I've read the quote four times and I still can't make sense of it. That means it either doesn't make sense or I really need to sleep now. I'll come back and try again tomorrow morning. But I'm not optimistic.