Woman arrested after stillbirth due to suspicions she had ‘illegal abortion’ (in the UK)

[SwissBall]

apple.news/AOG-G5JvRShu3qWU3l_SAwQ

Held in custody for 36 hours.

This is completely unacceptable. We’ve decriminalised abortion in Northern Ireland, it’s time that the rest of the UK caught up on abortion law. (Yes I realise the full irony of what I have just written).
But it’s true. Westminster politicians should not be able to take women’s votes for granted and allow antiquated laws to persist. Please write to your MP and say that we urgently need decriminalisation of the 1967 Abortion Act so that women in Great Britain can be allowed to have the same rights.

Same rights (as women in Northern Ireland) I mean

I agree. I am supportive of abortion & participate in them.

TOP is legal to term in the UK but the criteria after 24/40 are stringent.

if you’re having an abortion after 24 weeks It’s really important that it meets legal criteria and is performed safely. This is how we protect abortion for all women.

our local clinic agreed to ‘re scan’ a woman a few yrs ago. She was 24+2 & the clinic was offering to rescan and potentially perform a TOP. They didn’t have the facilities for a TOP at that gestation and were jeopardising abortion for all and their license and her health. We reported the clinic to the police. We cannot afford to loose these services.

"We’ve decriminalised abortion in Northern Ireland, it’s time that the rest of the UK caught up on abortion law."

Is this right? I thought under the new law abortion on demand was only available in NI until 12 weeks.

This is terrifying. There is absolutely no justification for this. If the HCPs thought someone was out there performing unregulated illegal abortions then yes by all means report that - but to report the woman and then for the police to investigate her is completely unnecessary, not to mention traumatising for her, not in the public interest, and just plan gross.

according to the report she sought an abortion through the proper channels but even if she hadn’t, there will have been a reason. And whatever that reason is, even if others find it distasteful or not compelling, it is enough. Her rights and her autonomy should always be the priority.

I e emailed my MP and also asked them work towards putting buffer zones around clinics, following the SNPs work.

We reported the clinic to the police. We cannot afford to loose these services.

You reported the clinic. If this poor woman had had an illegal termination then finding and dealing with the abortionist would be protecting women and abortions in this country. Arresting the woman would not be in the public interests, or protect anyone or anything.

It was an unnecessary, horrific and inhumane thing to do and it should not be possible to arrest a woman in these circumstances in this country in this day and age.

I would argue that her health is also a priority.

it’s pretty gristly when you have to report a clinic. Given that there are only 2 major ‘chains’ of clinic in the UK it’s like ringing the police and reporting McDonald's or Coca Cola. Honestly.

And, they need proof. And proof means clients. Honestly it’s hideous all round. I don’t know the details of the case we are discussing but I HAVE reported a clinic and it’s not something (1) we did lightly (2) I ever thought I’d need to do in the 21st century in the UK

Without knowing any further details of the case - I can see it may have been right for HCPs to follow up with the police, but I think that the arrest was totally unwarranted and unjustifiable. Absolutely no reason this couldn't be dealt with by a police interview with the woman at home when she had physically recovered.

If all abortions in the UK, require the agreement of two doctors, how did the abortion services offered during the pandemic get around this?
There was no involvement of drs whatsoever?
Does that mean I could potentially face prosecution for having availed myself of these services?

I think, it was a few years ago, there was a woman who was sentenced (jailed) for inducing a miscarriage with the drugs used legally for early abortion. I'm scrabbling to remember the details but I don't think I imagined the whole thing. Iirc she was nearly full term and got the drugs off the Internet. She claimed the baby (foetus?) was stillborn but refused to disclose what she had done with the child's body. I remember being shocked by this case and I'm very prochoice.

If there were any mental health issues (there must have been), I don't remember them. I don't have a problem with cases like this going to court.

Now arguably she was probably vulnerable in some way if she was willing to go so far as to see an illegal provider, but was that clear to whomever she saw, it's possible that it wasn't. People sometimes try to hide things like that.

I didn't read anything about an illegal provider I couldn't read the independent link but read a different one that quoted it.

It seems like this happened in Cornwall so a place with not many, if any abortion clinics.

I read it as she had considered abortion but for whatever reason carried on with the pregnancy.

I know someone who went for an abortion but at the dating US saw arms and legs and decided to keep it. So I think something like that happened.

Unfortunately she went into labour and delivered a still birth at home.

I'm jumping tot he conclusion that someone read something in her notes or recognised her from a clinic visit.

I would guess at this being a receptionist or ward clerk rather than a HCP.

A woman seeking a late abortion, and feeling desperate enough to seek illegal means to obtain one, will have in the absence of physical health need a serious mental health need if she is willing to go through this. In which case she needs serious support and criminalising her will not help her or anyone else.

It's not like a woman is going to make a habit of getting pregnant and then having a late illegal abortion is it?

Where is the public interest in this being a criminal matter for the woman?

I can see why illegal abortionists need to be dealt with criminally, but not vulnerable women. That is unjust and cruel.

Blessed be the fruit.

*Unless the fruit is 10 and raped by an adult male.

Not all fruit are equal.*

@nocoolnamesleft was quoting The Handmaids Tale. It really does feel like we're sleepwalking into something along those lines. Abortions being made illegal in the US and Poland. A woman being arrested for a stillbirth in the U.K. An economist suggesting British women be penalised through tax if they don't have children.

Obviously there's 2 sides to this story, the police were alerted for a reason and the cps would not have allowed them to continue investigating if there wasn't some evidence. I obviously don't know the truth but there's a law - 24 weeks and if broken yes it's a criminal matter

Without knowing the details enough I am happy that it's likely the HCPs felt they had to report to Police. But the arrest is absolutely unreasonable and unjustified, there was no risk to the public by this woman. 'If' the police felt they had to interview they could have done a voluntary interview at a more appropriate date. Serial domestic abuse perpetrators will get voluntary interviews, parents who hit their children will often get voluntary interviews, I've known men accused of rape and CSA to get voluntary interviews. This is just disgusting misuse of power.

The baby was less than 24 weeks old, so she could have legally got an abortion. In fact she was surprised when the baby was still born that she was as far along as nearly 24 weeks, which doesn't sound like she would have been panicking that she wouldn't have been able to have an abortion. She's contacted an abortion clinic to find out her options.

There's nothing in any of that to suggest that she would have tried to abort her baby illegally. I guess she may have said something that alarmed the HCPs but after a woman has given birth by herself to a dead baby unexpectedly I'm pretty sure she could be saying things in shock like "This is my fault, I wanted an abortion" etc. She would hardly be the first woman to blame herself for a miscarriage/stillbirth because she considered a miscarriage.

As someone with a medical condition where its quite normal to have 10+ miscarriages/late term losses, I find stories like these chilling.

The SNP have failed to do any work on buffer zones, despite many calls for them to do so. It was a Green MSP who did the work.

"“Last week, the Ohio legislator who sponsored a bill to ban nearly all abortions in the state said “to end the pregnancy of the child is not going to erase those wounds or those scars” and that a child conceived from rape or incest “still has the right to life.”"

There is a very sick and extreme religious spread in the US. The rights of the woman come down the list and a foetus comes first even if conceived of rape, domestic abuse, poverty, incest.

Sickness there of the mind, sick and spreading.

I'm going to guess that the lawmaker is elevating the foetus above the child because the foetus may be male.

This sounds like it should have been dealt with as a safeguarding matter to ensure that the woman was not being abused. I disagree with taking her into custody.

I don't blame the authorities for asking questions where things don't add up. Time and time again they are berated for missing red flags. Part of being vigilant and professionally sceptical means that sometimes unusual but innocent situations will have to be looked into.

UK HCPs are almost always very supportive of women's right to abortion do not have a track record of trying to "stop abortions"--this isn't the Republic of Ireland circa 1970. They will have seen some major red flags going on here.

I would like to think this is correct, and that they reported only out of concern for public safety, however there are HCPs who are anti abortion. I had the unfortunate experience to encounter a gyne ward (yes Gynaecology) in the U.K. where every doctor on shift at the time was an anti abortionist and denied me treatment for a medical gone wrong, despite deeming my situation serious enough to keep me in hospital for 2 days until someone was in who would perform a D&C. I would never ever trust that a woman would be safe turning up at a general hospital for real or suspected abortion aftercare after that experience.

I don’t know what the police were thinking arresting this poor woman in this case. Absolutely disgusting.

And meanwhile the police are far too busy and stretched to investigate the majority of paedophiles apparently. Because they are so prolific the police don’t bother, unless they are extremely serious and repeat offenses.

But a woman who is no risk is immediately found, arrested and held after one phone call?

Curious.

Because the legislation was temporarily changed and every prescription for postal drugs goes past a medic and a pharmacist.