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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Book review by Naomi Cunningham

20 replies

ARoombaOfOnesOwn · 04/07/2022 12:15

twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1543870022799482882

And from this tweet -
“If the objective of the book was to increase understanding of the law in this area, it must be judged an abject failure. Even a reader with little prior knowledge will be struck by the regularity with which the authors simply give up on the task of analysis”

twitter.com/MatthewGreenf11/status/1543886606079348736

Presented without comment.

OP posts:
WeeBisom · 04/07/2022 12:19

Oof, no wonder Robin is displeased. They hold themself out to be something of an expert in trans law , so it’s pretty embarrassing that the book contains so many blatant errors.

Live4weekend · 04/07/2022 12:34

I am not sure why it is now acceptable for TRAs to be racist.

Shocking shocking comments from books authors.

CompleteGinasaur · 04/07/2022 12:36

Something I was reading on another thread here a few days ago (sorry, can't recall thread to credit you properly!) about the way medical and surgical treatments for trans issues evolved seems very analogous - at first the new area was pretty much despised as unproven and risky, therefore only those with a special interest and/or an eye for the main chance entered the field. Before very long these (not entirely disinterested) brave pioneers had become, faute de mieux, the founding fathers (sic) of this exciting innovation, and therefore all the bias inherent in approaching a subject in a not strictly scientifically impartial manner becomes baked into the new discipline.

Bad law might not kill quite as many people as bad medicine but it's not something we should just let pass because 'be kind - stunning and brave', surely?

Rightsraptor · 04/07/2022 12:49

It's the 'tone' that was wrong, you see. Uterus-havers, watch your tone. However, if you have or ever have had a penis, don't worry. Tone is of no consequence for you.

Clymene · 04/07/2022 13:01

I've read that before. I think it can fairly be described as excoriating.

ANewCreation · 04/07/2022 13:59

Excoriating is a good word.

Sometimes you read a review which makes you wonder whether the reviewer has a) actually read the book or b) attempted to engage with its premise. This cannot be said about Naomi Cunningham. She read it and engaged with it.

Yet, instead of engaging with the substance of her review or challenging her on factual accuracy, the Discrimination Law Association's committee felt that the "overall tone" of [Cunningham's] review of "Transgender Law" by Robin White and Nicola Newbegin published in the March edition of the DLA Briefing was "not in keeping with the DLA's position of impartiality in any debate between different protected characteristic groups". A second (much more positive) review is to be published in this month's Briefing."

Have they read the book?

A quick refresh. These are White's and Newbegin's own words when discussing the meaning of the words“man” and “woman” - an argument eerily familiar on FWR:

“The EqA 2010 definition of ‘man’ is a male of any age and ‘woman’ is a female of any age’ (EqA s212). But without a definition of ‘male’ and ‘female’ this does not help. Is a trans male (sic) a male or a trans woman female? Is a trans woman something different from a woman? But a gay woman or a black woman are still women, why not a trans woman?”

www.legalfeminist.org.uk/2021/09/02/a-practical-guide/

How cloth-eared is it that it is Naomi Cunningham's 'overall tone' that is the main issue for the Discrimination Law Association Committee rather than, for example, the overt sexism or the ugly, casual racist and homophobic othering of black and gay women - 2 'other protected characteristic groups' - of the original text.

unwashedanddazed · 04/07/2022 14:12

They criticise the tone because they can't dispute the content of the review.

This has been the case since Forstater - You have the right to hold GC beliefs but any expression of them will be faulted in some way.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 04/07/2022 15:20

How embarrassing. It's like 11 year olds asking Mum to contact school to stop their detention for not doing their homework.

But, it's a masterclass in how to ensure that writing is never subject to critical analysis - vital of course when there's no intellectual substance that underpins an ideology.

TheMarzipanDildo · 04/07/2022 22:56

“Is a trans woman something different from a woman? But a gay woman or a black woman are still women, why not a trans woman?”

the feck is this

Conflictedunicorn · 04/07/2022 23:18

Is this the famous RMW that sometimes haunts these boards like a sad ghost wailing the bekind message? And they don’t know what a woman is but claim to be a lawyer? Right, so do they just identify as a lawyer cos they’ve watched rumple of the Bailey or are they actually a lawyer?

Clymene · 04/07/2022 23:48

They are a compiler of bundles I believe. Poorly organised and badly cross referenced I believe.

Helleofabore · 04/07/2022 23:58

Wasn’t there a now deleted post where apparently posting negative reviews on this book on a thread was reported as abusive?

The only deletion was that post and quickly ….

Melroses · 05/07/2022 00:19

Ah yes I remember that book - a whole chapter was already out of date when it was published. 🤔

I thought the review of the rest of it was fair and accurate.

Conflictedunicorn · 05/07/2022 05:53

Helleofabore · 04/07/2022 23:58

Wasn’t there a now deleted post where apparently posting negative reviews on this book on a thread was reported as abusive?

The only deletion was that post and quickly ….

Oh is Robin like Laurie Penny then, one of those ‘authors’?

EmpressaurusWitchDoesntBurn · 05/07/2022 05:55

White was one of Stonewall’s lawyers in the recent Allison Bailey tribunal.

SpinningTheSeedsOfLove · 05/07/2022 06:04

Robin is indeed an actual barrister and has acted as junior counsel at a couple of recent employment tribunals of interest, that were in the public eye and widely reported.

I don’t see why Robin’s book and resulting reviews can’t be discussed openly here. It’s all public domain material arising from public events.

Conflictedunicorn · 05/07/2022 07:13

It can be discussed, but Robin would rather we didn’t or they’ll set Batman on us. Unless we’re praising the book then we Dan discuss as much as we like obviously. Pointing out flaws is mean and unladylike apparently

dunBle · 05/07/2022 08:26

Melroses · 05/07/2022 00:19

Ah yes I remember that book - a whole chapter was already out of date when it was published. 🤔

I thought the review of the rest of it was fair and accurate.

I'm wondering if the justification for the new review is that it's actually an updated edition that correctly reflects the Forstater judgment now. Not holding my breath on that though.

KatVonlabonk · 05/07/2022 09:18

The TRAs were smart, they worked behind the scenes in law and politics to push through their agenda.

Sunshine never really suited them.

Gay and black women are FEMALE Robin, that's what makes them women. Hope that helps.

IloveHolby · 05/07/2022 12:29

@dunBle i think it’s resurfaced because the review has been withdrawn by the Discrimination Law Association.

I found the review clear and factual giving examples from the book and citing the law. The only bit where the tone may have been a little off (and which made me chuckle) was this:

. “Biological sex is an immutable and as a rule easily observable feature of human beings. In a small minority of those with certain rare DSDs, sex may be incorrectly observed at birth; but that fact no more undermines the male/female binary than the fact that individuals are occasionally prematurely pronounced dead undermines the alive/dead binary” I

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