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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Starmer and Labour

22 replies

ChristinaXYZ · 02/07/2022 20:56

twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1542825291273363456

Focusing on the conversion therapy issue with no sense of the implications for young gay men and lesbians. Also on reforming the Gender Recognition Act and I suspect not in a good way.

OP posts:
achillestoes · 02/07/2022 20:58

Yes. His power base is in the South. They love him in London.

BlackForestCake · 02/07/2022 21:01

The Labour front bench marching at Pride today, but won’t be seen on a picket line.

PearlClutch · 02/07/2022 21:02

Mm, and already the calls to burn the witches in the comments.

achillestoes · 02/07/2022 21:03

They like protest, but only certain types of protest.

dropthevipers · 02/07/2022 21:06

Thing is, even if they (Starmer et al) repudiate all there previous statements on gender woo it will still remain the fact that they did say those batshit things. Labour can fuck off till new management appears-without a hint of tin foil hattery.

achillestoes · 02/07/2022 21:10

They won’t repudiate it. It’s dyed in the fabric.

JacquelinePot · 03/07/2022 08:52

They really don't want to get elected, do they? Even people who don't agree with the views posters here most likely think Labour should be focusing on, oh I don't know, worker's rights, NHS, cost of living, education... You know, things that impact everyone, rather than a tiny number of twitter users with pronouns in their bios. Will they ever see sense?

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 03/07/2022 09:18

I used to think Starmer was GC but hiding it until women's rights campaigners had made it safe to be openly GC.

I now think Starmer was TWAW all along but hiding it so that he got GC people's votes in the Labour leadership elections.

PearlClutch · 03/07/2022 09:37

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 03/07/2022 09:18

I used to think Starmer was GC but hiding it until women's rights campaigners had made it safe to be openly GC.

I now think Starmer was TWAW all along but hiding it so that he got GC people's votes in the Labour leadership elections.

Agreed. I generally think he's not very bright; he certainly doesn't seem to have the slightest inkling of why women are campaigning on this. Incapable of grasping it or imagining how it is to be a woman.

I suppose that's one thing all males have in common.

The solution, of course, is to actually listen to women, instead of just talking over them, expelling them or reporting them for thoughtcrime.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 03/07/2022 09:55

It's interesting to read this article by Keir Starmer from 2002. He used to know that women were discriminated against on the grounds of sex.

All the bolding was applied to his words by me.

extract

And although women can take the throne, they are not free from the effects of deep-rooted sex discrimination, which is as old as the common law. Since the monarchy depends on the right of hereditary principle, rather than election or appointment, common law rules of succession apply. That means that male heirs take precedence over female - if George VI had had a son, there would be no golden jubilee for Queen Elizabeth this year.

That all of this contravenes every principle of non-discrimination ever drawn up hardly needs emphasis. The Human Rights Act 1998 was described by the government as a key component of its drive to modernise society and refresh our democracy. It expressly prohibits discrimination on grounds of sex, race and religion. It gives UK judges power to reinterpret the law to make it compatible "so far as possible" with the European convention on human rights.

That may be enough to end the discrimination against women in the rules of succession, but so virulent is the religious discrimination in the Act of Settlement that it is probably not possible to interpret it compatibly with basic human rights. The only real remedy is repeal: a small but important step in the "consolidation of our multicultural and multifaith society" described by the Queen in her jubilee speech in April this year.

(continues)

Surely, therefore, the time is ripe for reform. For republicans reform offers the opportunity for informed debate about the continued existence and role of the sovereign. For monarchists, there is the happy fact that there is at present an heir apparent with two sons; succession for the foreseeable future is unlikely to be affected by any alteration of the law allowing it to be passed to the eldest child of the sovereign irrespective of religion or sex. In the meantime, no doubt Prince William will take comfort in the fact that his idol, the princess of pop, Britney Spears is a Baptist. One day she may be Queen.

Keir Starmer QC is counsel for the Guardian (together with Geoffrey Robertson QC).

Keir Starmer writing for the Guardian in 2002

PearlClutch · 03/07/2022 09:58

Well, if he's not thick, he hates women.

Hanlon's razor is swinging towards malice.

DelurkingLawyer · 03/07/2022 10:08

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 03/07/2022 09:18

I used to think Starmer was GC but hiding it until women's rights campaigners had made it safe to be openly GC.

I now think Starmer was TWAW all along but hiding it so that he got GC people's votes in the Labour leadership elections.

I used to think this too, especially when he didn’t sign the stupid pledge during the leadership campaign.

I now think he is full on TWAW, and that it’s such a profound part of his self identity as a Good Person that he’ll not hear competing arguments. He looks bored or uptight at many events but he looked like he was having the time of his life at Pride. That’s him. That’s how he sees himself, as a proud LGBTQ+ ally. He’s not going to sacrifice that to move towards a more GC position (and he now knows that he would be excoriated by LGBT Labour for so doing, if he was previously in any doubt).

Fifteentoes · 03/07/2022 12:31

achillestoes · 02/07/2022 20:58

Yes. His power base is in the South. They love him in London.

Who loves him, exactly?

dropthevipers · 03/07/2022 12:58

Fifteentoes · 03/07/2022 12:31

Who loves him, exactly?

About two dozen people in NW2

FireFlyBoogaloo · 03/07/2022 13:39

I'm a centrist and probably lean more right than left on economics and generally lean pretty libertarian on many social issues. I'm not Labour's target voter regardless, but Labour is done.

The UK desperately needs a left-of-centre party that respects women's rights and focuses on economic and social issues. No democracy can thrive without a strong opposition, and right now it looks like the only thing that could kick BJ out of Downing Street is opposition from within his own party.

UK politics is in a perilous position for as long as pretty much every left-leaning party is captured by ridiculous identity politics, copied and pasted from the manifestos of far-too-powerful NGOs.

Tomnooktoldmeto · 03/07/2022 14:00

I’m with @FireFlyBoogaloo on this, historically because I’m old I’ve actually always voted for the party that actually wins so am one of the mythical swing voters

But this is my line in the sand, as much as I utterly detest Bojo and most of what the conservatives stand for right now, I cannot support the Labour Party in their current form and hatred of my sex

it really does feel like they don’t want to take power and are happy to persecute women who simply wish to have our rights respected

Franca123 · 04/07/2022 11:50

Why will they not spell out the detail. What is conversion therapy when talking about trans people? Does protecting the equality act include save guarding women's sex based rights therein or do men now qualify as women under the changes they want to the gender equality act. It makes me feel like I'm going mad. Why do they not give us the details. I'm begining to think that they actually do not understand the implications of statements like that and I'm beginning to realise that MPs might just be thick.

Ohnohedident · 04/07/2022 11:58

achillestoes · 02/07/2022 20:58

Yes. His power base is in the South. They love him in London.

No they dont! He is generally despised in the LP.

Ohnohedident · 04/07/2022 12:06

For anyone confused by Starmers adhearence to this vote losing loonacy. Starmer doesn't gaf, he does not care about wining an election.

His job is to make sure Labour does not have a left wing leader, thats it. Anything else is secondary.

He keeps up with the TWAW bollox because it keeps a lot of the party activists just about in check, without him having to make commitments to actual left policies.

He does not really give a crap either way I would have thought, he's got his directorships and other golden handshakes lined up, and could not care less about women, or trans people for that matter.

bellinisurge · 04/07/2022 12:15

I will not turn out for Labour on Election Day if they persist with this nonsense. I will not vote for the elimination of my sex.
I will spoil my ballot. If that means the Tories get back in, my conscience is clear. Self-ID is an existential threat to women.

SerenaVanDerWoodsenHumphrey · 04/07/2022 12:19

If Starmer had ANY smidge of desire to understand, he would have had someone explain it to him by now. Ask Rosie Duffield. Ask any of the Labour councillors who've spoken out. Ask the sane Labour Lords. If you're afraid to be outed, ask someone like Johann Lamont or Jenny Marra - they're out of politics but loyal to Labour and would keep your secret. Hell, ask Tony Blair, he'll tell you. Or what about Joanna Cherry - they used to be quite friendly and she could explain it to him in legal terms he'd understand. What about JKR - she used to be a huge Labour supporter/donor? Or read a book - Material Girls in a grocery-bag cover? Radical Notion? Listen to a taped WPUK meeting under the cover with earbuds?

What happened to his offer to meet with Labour Women's Declaration?

If he doesn't know, he determinedly doesn't want to know. And that, really. disqualifies him as a viable leader.

bellinisurge · 04/07/2022 12:23

I am a lifelong Labour voter (until Corbyn) since 1987, by the way. I am desperate to vote Labour

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