Jacob Rees Mogg revamping Civil Service training

[achillestoes]

It’s a sad day when you see Jacob Rees Mogg doing anything and you’re happy about it, but here we are. He is calling time on Civil Service training budgets being used for ‘ridiculous’ diversity courses that open the CS up to ‘mockery’ and don’t represent value for money. He’s writing to all government departments to make it clear that staff development should be about providing workers with the training needed to do their jobs.

I don’t like JRM but if anyone thinks the general public aren’t behind him on this, they’re deluded. Most people don’t believe training in your role should amount to moral indoctrination about your privilege, or requiring you to describe yourself within the frameworks of ideologies you don’t accept.

@Trixie4577864

Then it’s nothing to be too bothered about.

But we should remove the word bird from all official documents and change it to "creatures who tweet" to be more inclusive.

This includes humans with an active Twitter account and excludes corvids (caw) and owls (hoot). 🤔

I am not in the civil service, but it seems a shame that what could be quite valuable training on unconscious bias, assumptions, diversity is giving niche and uncommon examples that make people think this is ridiculous.

My company got an American guy to talk to us - he looked East Asian and started his talk with a heavy ‘stereotypical’ East Asian accent. Then after a while he switched to having a typical American accent. He then went on to discuss studies done where college courses had lecturers with an accent. Apparently the attrition was high in the first couple of weeks, but then it became stable and the students that stayed rated the lecturers as highly as other lecturers - as listeners, if we make an effort to get used to an accent, we can gain something valuable.

Be fair, the 2 bird personae are within the system of alters for that person…

Namenic

People shouldn’t have to be trained to understand that people speaking English with an accent have the same value as people speaking (one of the accents) in English or in their own language. If they need to be told, they are not going to change their minds when you tell them.

Do you have any evidence that unconscious bias training is effective?

@achillestoes - no, but I thought it was a good talk and personally I find it helpful to have things like that brought up as a reminder to examine my own biases. They also did talks on why diversity is in the interest of the company itself - not just a tickbox - which I would agree with. Makes sense that if there is under-representation of a particular group - we might be missing out on some unquantifiable or not-yet quantified perspectives.

What a surprise to see that achilles toes has started a thread supporting extreme -right winger Jacob Rees Mogg

Rees Mogg has endorsed the far right Alternative für Deutschland and repeated antisemitic slurs about George Soros and the Illuminati.

In 2017 that he was "completely opposed" to abortion including in cases of rape or incest.

‘no, but I thought it was a good talk and personally I find it helpful to have things like that brought up as a reminder to examine my own biases.’

Can I (since we’re anonymous) ask what your prejudices are?

@antifascist

I think Mogg is generally a pompous fool. I just think he’s right about this.

But JRM being opposed to abortion (although I’m not anti-choice) isn’t offensive to me, or to most sensible people. I’m pro-choice, not pro-abortion.

On a more serious note, working in the NHS, I object to the suggestion that HCPs need to go on specific courses to behave professionally, in a way that is literally in their code of practice.

I would expect people who work in the civil service to be similarly professional.

Snap.

And LOL at the idea up thread that if the CS stopped frittering money on this training they'd be able to increase the rate of pay for frontline operational staff. Not sure that's quite in line with JRM's agenda.

‘And LOL at the idea up thread that if the CS stopped frittering money on this training they'd be able to increase the rate of pay for frontline operational staff. Not sure that's quite in line with JRM's agenda.’

Of course it isn’t. But it’s nevertheless a waste of the taxpayer’s money.

Hate to state the obvious here but when your beliefs are suddenly aligned with JRM it’s probably time to reevaluate your outlook and perception of the world around you, incase you’re turning into a crusty ignorant Tory...

Just saying.

👀

‘Hate to state the obvious here but when your beliefs are suddenly aligned with JRM it’s probably time to reevaluate your outlook...’

I don’t make decisions like that. It’s a dangerous thing, to outsource your thinking to people you regard as inherently virtuous.

He is playing you, all the diversity training I have had has been useful and sensible and hasn't featured any gay Japanese grandfathers. Listening to what JRM says is like reading the Daily Mail.

@TheSmallAssassin

What has the useful and sensible training delivered?

That seems to be a common error.

JRM might have beliefs that align with those held by X. It doesn't follow that X has beliefs that are aligned with, or influenced by, JRM.

Exactly, agreeing with a person about one thing whilst disagreeing with them about other things is not a difficult concept. Maybe have a think before you start “just saying”

Have you never heard a tawny owl? Half their call is a tweet.

You're being tawnyphobic! Educate yourself!

I'm bothered because of the misinformation, JRM is trying to cause trouble and wind people up, to deflect. It's really frustrating.

@Trixie4577864

Maybe you could counter his view with a description of the really useful training you’ve received.

I suspect that JRM would like to cut any and all training around equality and diversity and picks out the most extreme/ridiculous examples to justify that. This isn't just about gender woo and isn't necessarily great news for women.

I'm that rare bird, a gender critical person working in a role that has equality and diversity responsibilities. Not civil service, but public sector, so we have a legal duty to promote equality across the EA2010 protected characteristics.

A common issue in my sector is male dominance in senior posts. We only want 'the best' apparently, but 'the best' is nearly always male. This was a recognised issue so we ran workshops with senior management that focused in on their decision-making and covered issues such as unconscious bias, recruiting in your own image, background, education etc and also very practical things such as 'non-traditional' (in their eyes) career paths, for example where women have taken breaks for maternity leave, have moved to part time and then full time again etc, or where someone hasn't gone to Oxbridge or a Russell Group university.

The upshot was recognition by senior management that their belief they were objectively recruiting 'the best' was questionable AND they agreed to a series of practical measures (such as no 'all male' shortlists) to help level the playing field. Our numbers of women at senior level is now increasing as a direct result of this.

Sorry for the long post, but I think we need to be careful about what we are celebrating here. I'm sure JRM would have zero issue with a totally male senior management.

@littleburn

Are your no all-male shortlists based on gender or sex, out of interest?

@achillestoes the most recent training that I have had was for recruiting people, there were a few things for me to tweak. I think I try to be aware of biases, and don't look for faces that fit, but I could see some things I could do better. The whole course was about making sure you are finding the best person for the job, and part of that is making sure that you are not missing out on good candidates because of conscious or unconscious biases.

TBH, in my organisation, the diversity/inclusion issue we talk about the most is neurodiversity. But we're also pretty white and middle class, with women not being represented enough at a higher level. I think it's worthwhile working on that, but sounds like you think that's all a waste of time.