Trans conversion therapy must be outlawed, Theresa May tells Johnson

[Igneococcus]

In the Times, don't see this shared yet. I don't think she knows what she is talking about:
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/381ab74a-f914-11ec-84c1-32e852e780b0?shareToken=9d3434c8f499c3151797b914e726e073

I heard an interview with one of her advisors and he obviously didn't understand the issues, either.

That was a while ago, and since then a lot of people have spoken out about the problems. If May is still in support, the best I can say about her is that she's not listening to people. Not a great feature in a politician.

Possibly I'm hairsplitting, I also saw this in an article in the Guardian, but she doesn't explicitly say that.

I think it would help with clarity if she'd say what trans conversion therapy is. What is it she wants banned?

She doesn't have a fkn clue. Maybe she'll look into the detransitioners launching legal action because no one ever bothered to talk things through with them. Idiot.

I’m not sure what conversion therapy means in regards to trans people? Does it mean trying to convert them to not be trans? I find it confusing because I see people who are trans wanting to convert to being the opposite sex to what they’re born as. But am I right in thinking that any attempt to help a person come to terms with the body they’re born with is the conversion therapy they’re talking about?

‘But am I right in thinking that any attempt to help a person come to terms with the body they’re born with is the conversion therapy they’re talking about?’

I think so.

Saying the government must keep to its commitment to consider the issue of transgender conversion therapy is quite a long way short of saying trans conversion therapy must be banned. I suspect she chose her words carefully.

She’s getting bad advice imo

May is motivated solely by her guilt over trying to block gay rights in the past. She seems to think she can atone by being v supportive of the trans juggernaut now - without realising it is a totally different situation, and is in fact intrinsically homophobic as an ideology.
Gay men never demanded the right to enter women’s changing rooms, their rights did not infringe anyone else’s. Conversion therapy for them was 100% bad.
Whereas so called trans children need skilled psychotherapeutic counselling - not to “convert” them away from trans, but to uncover other causes for their apparent dysphoria, such as autism or a history of sexual abuse.

What she wrote in the i:

inews.co.uk/news/six-prime-ministers-lgbt-progress-pride-50th-anniversary-1716636

"Five decades ago, campaigners braved abuse and ridicule as they marched to raise awareness of the discrimination they faced in law, employment and from society at large.
Fifty years later, thanks to people like Peter Tatchell and the commitment of many other long-standing campaigners, we can take pride in how much, and how profoundly, attitudes have changed.
I include myself in that – looking back now, there are issues I would have voted on differently, were I to vote on them today.
But as we acknowledge the progress that has been made, we must remember there is a long way still to go.
I was proud, as Prime Minister, to launch the country’s first National LGBT Survey. More than 100,000 people responded.
Some of the results were encouraging. Most gay and lesbian people told us they felt comfortable living in the UK and the majority of LGBT people – almost 60 per cent – feel able to be open about their sexuality or gender identity at work.
Yet at the same time, two in five LGBT people said they had experienced verbal or physical abuse because of their sexuality or gender identity. And nearly two-thirds avoid holding hands with same-sex partners for fear of a negative reaction.
Few people, reading the accounts of trans people in our survey, would disagree that they still face indignities and prejudice, when they deserve understanding and respect.
It is nearly five years since that survey was launched and in that time the debate about trans people has grown more, not less, divisive.
We need to strive for greater understanding on both sides of the debate. Just because an issue is controversial, that doesn’t mean we can avoid addressing it.
To that end, the government must keep to its commitment to consider the issue of transgender conversion therapy. If it is not to be in the upcoming Bill, then the matter must not be allowed to slide.
For, whatever our sexuality or gender identity, we are all equally deserving of acceptance; LGBT rights are human rights. That was the lesson of 50 years ago and while we have come a long way, it is something we still need to remind ourselves of today."

But am I right in thinking that any attempt to help a person come to terms with the body they’re born with is the conversion therapy they’re talking about?

Yes. You have to remember that the harmful conversion practices that people want banned are not puberty blockers that cause bone density and brain maturation issues, loss of fertility and loss of sexual function, nor is it the cross sex hormones that cause all the issues they do interrupting the healthy endocrine system, nor is it the removal of healthy body parts, breasts, genitals and the disabilities that might arise like incontinence, pain, mobility issues. No, the harmful conversion practices that should be banned are stopping anyone from doing all this to their body or even just asking them if they're sure.

If she's quoting uncle pete, she is getting bad advice.

It’s absolutely backwards isn’t it? It’s horrifying that actively exploring feelings and thoughts before going down the medical route is discouraged. There will be so many people messed up by this shit for the rest of their lives - and I hope we’ll get to a point where the NHS is held to account 😔

I'm sorry but detailing the forms of conversion therapy that have been performed on gay people (such as the use of synthetic hormones and castration) needs to be heard, not deleted.

The problem with this survey that May references is that there’s no way of knowing whether the “verbal abuse” or “indignities or prejudice” that transpeople are reporting is actual, reprehensible transphobia or whether it’s being correctly sexed (accidentally or otherwise) or not having someone submit to their every demand, however unreasonable. Unfortunately there are so many examples of hyperbolic shrieks of “hate” and “transphobia” that are objectively nothing of the sort that it has become meaningless.

This is from the Wikipedia entry on Alan Turing.

Turing was 39 when he started a relationship with Arnold Murray, a 19-year-old unemployed man.

Turing was convicted [of gross indecency] and given a choice between imprisonment and probation. His probation would be conditional on his agreement to undergo hormonal physical changes designed to reduce libido. He accepted the option of injections of what was then called stilboestrol (now known as diethylstilbestrol or DES), a synthetic oestrogen; this feminization of his body was continued for the course of one year. The treatment rendered Turing impotent and caused breast tissue to form

The issue is the lack of clarity about what is meant by conversion therapy. Some practices like have been seen in gay conversion are abusive and should not be allowed. But just discussing identity and exploring any issues around that, can be helpful and in the case of being trans, is IMO necessary before any surgical steps are taken. The concern is that counselling will be subsumed under the banner of conversion, as some try to vilify anything but absolute immediate affirmation.

Ok is there any point in me posting on this forum. Is other people's religious propensities and how it might affect their view of homosexual relationships out of bounds?

Evidence: www.ft.com/content/d742bcfe-86f2-11e6-ad89-ba2f348161fb

I don't think what she's actually said is wrong in the sense that it is something that many people want discussed, and so it should be discussed.

I think the idea of trans conversion therapy only makes sense if someone has a misunderstanding of what gender ideology really is, and the whole public discourse is difficult because of that kind of misunderstanding.

But I think it's actually pretty clear that it's a contentious issue and needs to keep being discussed.

Has The Times just not bothered to mod the comments on this at all? Someone has written a long fantasy novel on there, and someone else is basically replying "Nuh-UUUUUH! 😛" to every single critical post. I normally think their modding is far too restrictive, but this is playground-level free for all.

The Guardian probably saved it up in response to this

www.harthanbarrister.com/blog/files/44eca404b30952053e28c53829866deb-5.html

i.e. the litigation wave that's now, predictably, coming hard down the river.

As @Babdoc says, Theresa May is lost in her own tangle of guilt. I also think there is witting and unwitting homophobia at play and she need to face up to this PDQ. She's so far behind the curve on this it's bloody pathetic.

There was an extended item about Pride month on Channel 4 this evening. It was shocking in its dishonesty, particularly on so called trans conversion therapy.