Telegraph: Scots who change gender under new trans laws risk having status ignored in England

[ResisterRex]

Although the headline says England, it seems this will include Wales:

"The Telegraph understands that UK ministers are considering refusing to recognise gender recognition certificates (GRCs) which would be issued under the new SNP system, which will operate under a "self-identification" modell_ and remove any medical checks.
It is understood that UK officials are working through the implications of the policy for England and Waless_, as Scottish-born people living south of the border would be eligible to apply for a Scottish certificate."
On schools and prison, the article says:

"While it is understood a final decision has not been taken, UK officials are aware of potential problems such as Scottish-born male prisoners in English jails taking advantage of the Scottish system and then demanding to be moved to a women’s facility.
They also fear implications for schools if Scottish-born pupils in England change their legal sex, as 16- and 17-year-olds would also be able to apply, compared to 18 in the rest of the UK."

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/06/29/people-changing-gender-new-scottish-trans-laws-risk-having-status/

They don't do share tokens but it might be archived somewhere.

oh, how would this work? I like the idea of setting a precedent for refusing to recognise GRCs. I think it suggests a possiblity for the GRA to fall apart slowly.

(pls do convicted criminals next after Scottish people! Or at least, sex offenders.)

Found a tweet with an accessible copy:

mobile.twitter.com/willows_elise/status/1542207802164539392

Might the answer be in Ireland? Don't they already have self identification without medical assessment etc?

According to the article, GRCs issued in Ireland are not recognised:

"Under current rules, only GRCs granted in specified foreign countries are formally recognised in the UK. Irish certificates, where a similar system proposed by Scotland operates, carry no weight."

I'm not sure which countries' GRCs are recognised.

Might the answer be in Ireland?

Well, an answer, anyway. He’s called Barbie Kardashian.

He’s demonstrated that self ID without medical assessments is indeed as catastrophically stupid an idea as it sounds.

Repeal the GRA. Seriously. It's bad law and unworkable.

So an Irish person with an Irish gender certificate and a new birth cert stating their "new" gender isn't actually recognized in other countries?
That's so interesting....

How will it work? We aren't allowed to ask of someone has a GRC, we can only ask for a birth certificate which will be falsified to show the incorrect sex.

Repeal the whole bloody thing, now!

Cross border issues and recognition questions/concerns were raised by at least one concerned group with the GRUnit back in January who airily brushed them away.

This sounds promising. So concerns are being heard, not just for in sport and NHS language.

Yes agree, repeal the GRA, it's legal fiction anyway and has now been to shown in practice to invite sex discrimination.

Quite. The SNP are idiots for following this pattern.

This is exactly what I was going to ask.

I recently applied for a birth certificate through the GRO (General Register Office). It seems to me that, by refusing to accept "updated" records (or even being unaware of them), the UK government could undermine any birth certificates re-issued by Scotland.

Fairly easy security check, no? The Scottish gender-wooers are setting self-declared trans people up to fail... as transactivists do in so many ways.

I looked up the General Register Office. If I read this page right, then it seems that any change to a birth certificate issued in England or Wales - where it's done outside outside E/W - basically would not exist.

It looks like changes to those can only be done under the England and Wales system, and copies ordered under that system which includes indexing. So whatever you think you've changed in Scotland, would not in fact have changed in England or Wales:

"The following can be ordered through our GRO online ordering service -
• Certificates for birth, death, marriage, civil partnership and adoption events registered in England and Wales and for certain British Nationals, who were born, married, formed a civil partnership or died overseas.
... • PDFs for historical digitised civil registration records held by GRO (birth entries from 1837 to 1921 and death entries from 1837 to 1957).
To order a PDF, you will need to provide a GRO index reference number...there will be an additional administration charge if a GRO index reference is not provided.
The GRO online indexes should be used to try and identify the index reference for: birth records from 1837 up to 100 years ago, and 1984 up to the current year; and death records from 1837 to 1957, and 1984 up to the current year in England and Wales.
...

For certificates from the Gender Recognition Register, once the registration has been made, you will have been given a direct line to telephone the team or you can use the above number and be redirected."

www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/faq.asp

But this is quite technical so I might have misunderstood.