Pronouns are like so over!!

[Theeyeballsinthesky]

If you can bear to wade through this long self absorbed naval gazing piece Meeeeee
the author concludes that now everyone is doing it, it no longer confers the super special status it once did on them so we should stop

he concludes “just call me by my name”

im completely shocked, shocked I tell you, that “misgendering” someone by using the wrong pronouns is actually not literal violence after all

Agree with a lot of this. Brock didn't fit the stereotypes, tried to identify out of people's expectations.

Turns out it's the cultural expectations that need to change, not how you identify.

Except that what young people often don't realise is that these "expectations" really aren't so concrete - they're projections of YOUR OWN expectations onto others.

Other people really don't think about you that much, or have such concrete expectations, usually. (Maybe some of the Munchausen moms like Susie Green excepted).

Figuring out that you can just "be yourself" rather than trying to "fit in" is one of those key differentiators between adolescence and full adulthood, and is I think the strongest argument to have a higher-than-normal-legal-adulthood age bar for physical transition like 25 - to clear that common mental change.

I don't know if this makes sense at all what I'm about to say because I get so confused with all of this 😅 but ...

I read some of this and he (and other trans/ non binary etc etc) seem to talk about not confirming to gender norms which is fine, whatever 🤷 but they want to be able to be whatever they want so if they're a female they don't necessarily want to be considered girly or someone who does stuff at home, likes baking and flowers etc and if they're a male they don't want to have to be "manly" and enjoy football etc, of course just stereotypes mostly! So why do they then decide to be the other sex to conform to those gender norms rather than saying "I'm a male but I have a preference for more feminine things"?

It feels like by having to switch sex they're only emphasising the differences in sexes rather than showing that you can be one sex but prefer things associated with the opposite gender.

I've thought about this before but literally can't find a way to explain it 😂 if someone else can make sense of it that would be great 👍

It feels like by having to switch sex they're only emphasising the differences in sexes rather than showing that you can be one sex but prefer things associated with the opposite gender.

CB addresses that in the final paragraph.

These days, it feels as if an identity that, not long ago, felt unique to me in most rooms I entered has gone mass. Yes, part of what I’m personally upset about is the fact that this thing I loved isn’t so alt anymore. But more than that, it feels as if pronoun culture has contributed to nonbinary becoming just the third gender after male and female, more static and concrete than its original fluid intentions. The same nonbinary person who complained about nonbinary stereotypes lamented to me, “I don’t want to be a homogeneous normcore mashing of the two genders.” Ben hoped, “If man or woman can mean so many things, then so can nonbinary.” We all became nonbinary to escape gendered expectations, and now we’re stuck again. I can’t help but think that the walking-on-eggshells battle for pronouns is turning my gender into a human-resources-approved corporate product, more neutered than neutral, and, maybe above all else, profoundly unromantic. Next time, just call me by my name.

lovesT what you say makes sense to me.

I couldn't be arsed to read all that; what a very boring person. It reminds me of the Sneetches. It's so predictable and juvenile to be cross that your exciting, edgy quirk (which they admit they deployed in part because they enjoyed fucking with people's heads) has now become mainstream and you're no longer special and interesting. I guess that's a drawback of having a gender identity instead of a personality.

I quite enjoyed reading it but did skim bits as I found it too long.

The thing that stood out to me was the 'I'm not playing your game' comment. Great, loads of us aren't playing but because we haven't given ourselves a new label, you assume we are. And by labelling yourself as interesting and different by extension you put us in boxes too. Sounds like he might have sort of realised that as he has grown up but I'm not sure he's quite there.

Other people really don't think about you that much Couldn't agree more with this @NecessaryScene

I love how Brock has combined the head tilt, hand on hip, arm draped down the body, AND daintily crossed legs and he still looks like a bloke!

I didn't like this article very much because unfortunately I've had too much experience with narcissists like Brock, and it gave me that horrible sensation like I'm walking on eggshells. They are such bullies. So, despite the fact we have endured massive social pressure to ask for pronouns because it's the kind thing to do, apparently asking for pronouns is an act of self flattery designed to make us feel good. The reality is that Brock and others like him will be sneery and nasty no matter what people do. There is no pleasing him. This is why it's so sad seeing women falling over themselves to be allies when in fact the targets of their kindness are thinking 'ugh, how pathetic.'

So Brock will be pleased to know that he doesn't have to go through the 'charade' with me ( although no doubt he will be sad that he doesn't get the thrill of making me confused or upset), because I refuse to play the pronoun game with him.

Some of us are most definitely opting out of the game that assumes boxes are required at all.

Personally, I want to go around telling everyone that identity is a reciprocal social process. Identities are not innate, they’re social categories that people use to make sense of themselves, each other and social systems more generally. They’re always messy, ambiguous and more-or-less problematic. They change over time and vary between contexts. They’re as much - or possible more - imposed on us by the world around us as they are things we generate ourselves. We are identified according to a range of social categories. Our behaviour can contribute to shifting those categories but it’s a bigger process than any individual and not one that can easily be directed or controlled.

Many of us are opting out of any game that requires us to pretend that identity is an essential part of us. Or that having multiple, slippery and only half-applicable identities is in any way unusual.

Mostly I blame this on the massive expansion of social science higher education where a large number of concepts were poorly, uncritically and problematic ally learned and have come to shape all sorts of debates in really problematic ways. All those students whose essays demonstrated that they really didn’t know what ‘social constructionism’ (for example) is and still emerged with a ‘good degree’ (I’ve marked thousands of these myself!) have gone out into the world to deploy this rubbish. And the internet has allowed the rubbish to spread.

Him, him, himmmmmmmmm:
What's she gonna do about him?
She's gonna have to do without him
Or do without meeee, meeeeeeee, meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
No one gets to get it for free!
It's time for me to make the girl seeeeee...
It's me or it's him.
(Rupert Holmes, 1980)

Good, pronouns are old hat now and sooo irrelevant 😃

Yah, third person singular personal pronouns are officially over. Don't worry, tho - they (/them) will be back as "retro" soon enuf -- along with cold-shoulder tops, funfetti hard seltzer, Tik Tok sales conferences, eating on the street with the rats, 24-hour Peppa Pig marathons, FFP2 masks, and foot-long beards. Mark yr calendars for 5020 ...

Gave the first bit a read then skipped to the end, because it was a lot of meeee meeeee meeeeee.

We all became nonbinary to escape gendered expectations

Well duh.

"If you met me, you'd probably ask what pronouns I use".

Err, nope.

It's no longer special, so they don't want to do it any more. Just like everyone declaring themselves "queer", or bisexual people calling themselves pansexual because it's more unique.

But on a serious note, anyone who puts pronouns in their social media profile is more likely than not to be a not very nice person.

... although I have a feeling they'd tell me anyways ...

It is the fatal flaw of transgender ideology - when it becomes mainstream it fails.

Trans athletes don't want to compete against other trans atheletes

Men identifying as women don't want to be locked up with other men in 'women's' prisons

When the word 'women' ceases to mean women then it is no use

When they are also expected to remember pronouns it becomes hassle for then too that they don't want.

Even kink loses its allure when no one turns a hair.

It is the fatal flaw of transgender ideology - when it becomes mainstream it fails.

Which is why they hate us acting as their mums and/or teachers, and asking "what if everyone did that?"

I did find one little point quite telling, in the opening paragraph:

"And so you’d ask what pronouns I use because it’s considered the polite thing to do now — an accepted part of our perilous new social-justice social contract — and you don’t want to offend me with your ignorance and you do want to flatter yourself with your deft ally-ness, all the while probably thinking, especially if you’re over 30, Oh goodness, the world is so different now."

"... you do want to flatter yourself with your deft ally-ness ..."

He is basically showing such DISRESPECT to those willing allies, looking down his nose at them. And yet - I agree, those people who are so willing to fawn over pronouns are doing it to make themselves feel better about themselves, not to make the person they're asking more comfortable of at ease.

This is the part that nails it for me:

These days, it feels as if an identity that, not long ago, felt unique to me in most rooms I entered has gone mass. Yes, part of what I’m personally upset about is the fact that this thing I loved isn’t so alt anymore. But more than that, it feels as if pronoun culture has contributed to nonbinary becoming just the third gender after male and female, more static and concrete than its original fluid intentions. The same nonbinary person who complained about nonbinary stereotypes lamented to me, “I don’t want to be a homogeneous normcore mashing of the two genders".

It's just so... teenage faddy.

On another thread on here a teacher said non-binary was becoming a ‘year 7 thing’ at her school and so ultimately Not Cool.

This long navel gazing piece is basically saying the same thing.

Does anyone remember the article by the non-binary goth bemoaning how hard it was because goths all dressed similarly and wore makeup.

Christ, how can one person go on and on for that long about bloody pronouns? I also think Brock wildly overestimates how much other People care for their pronouns - who gives a fuck?!

Do young people really say their pronouns to each other when meeting each other for the first time? Gaaaaaah!

Why is that so funny?

Goodness me - I'm astonished anyone can write that much about pronouns and themselves. They can rest assured that no one really cares

you’d ask what pronouns I use

No I wouldn't.

Made me think of addiction, how the body gets used to the drug. So being called 'woman' doesn't bring the euphoria it one did, so go for 'female' to keep chasing that first high.

I'm speculating, I rarely try anything stronger than tea.

I read most of that, skimming the simply autobiographical stuff. I wanted to get to the end because it really felt like he was starting to get it, in places. But then at the end he just demands to be called by his name! Surely the logical conclusion would have been to say he didn’t mind what pronouns people used for him, like the kid he quoted near the beginning?