Sean Ingle Guardian article on FINA decision / trans women in female sports

[InvisibleDragon]

Article here, thought it deserves a post of its own:
amp.theguardian.com/sport/2022/jun/20/no-magic-solution-in-the-battle-over-trans-inclusion-in-womens-sport

Discusses inclusion Vs fairness &safety dilemma and basically concludes that inclusion basically compromises fairness and safety. I know sports stuff is given more leeway to include biology, but it's a big contrast to the Guardian's preferred line.

I'm sure that's the photoshopped version of Thomas, if not, well done you, love to know what moisturiser you're using.

The fourth paragraph, UCI actually baldly stated they were prepared to be unfair to women? I mean, I know it seems they are but did they come out and say it?

Refreshing to read a sensible article published by the Guardian on this for once. The Americans have loosened their trans grip a little.

UCI actually baldly stated they were prepared to be unfair to women?

They did offer the female competitors mental health support to deal with the emotions evoked by LT winning.

Sean Ingles has stood out as a Guardian reporter capable of writing balanced and informative articles.
Cycling openly proposing to implement unfair to women practices is quite a statement. Most misogynists usually attempt to hide their beliefs in public but here's cycling openly announcing they'll consider deliberately and unfairly disadvantage women in competitions.

I think PP was talking about cycling here:

"cycling’s governing body, the UCI, opted to ride down a different path. It, too, accepts that the science shows that trans women have an advantage. But it says some unfairness to females in sport is acceptable in exchange for being inclusive."

Which means that some unfairness to females is acceptable to let mediocre males win.

Can’t get my head round if it is alright for women in cycling not to necessarily have a chance to succeed against transwomen then why isn’t it alright for transwomen not to necessarily have a chance to succeed against men?

Good article.

'we need to start from inclusion, period. I think people also need to understand that sport is not the most important thing in life, right?”'

Meg Rapinoe. I don't even know who the fuck she is, is she famous for anything?

Rapinoe is an American footballer, women’s football is big over there.

However, I’m pretty sure she retired last year, and has never actually played against males. Never been tackled by a player who totally overshadows her in height, strength, speed. And therefore talking out of her arse, condemning younger female players to a level of injury she never faced, a level of competition for your place on the team she never faced, a loss of career prospects she never faced. And all so she can be cheered by the woke. Such a hero!

Megan Rapinoe is still active for both United States Womens Soccer Team and OL Reign. OL Reign have a trans players on their team, Quinn, who also played for the Canadian Womens Team at the Tokyo Olympics.

The USWNT regularly get people highlighting the fact that a local club U-15 boys team beat them in a scrimmage.

Hagiography
Meg Rapinoe. I don't even know who the fuck she is, is she famous for anything?

She's the (now retired) star striker for the American women's football (soccer) team. She has benefited hugely from eg Title IX college provision of sport opportunities for women; supported a trans man who plays on the American women's team, and yet insists that trans women should also play on this team and experiences 0 cognitive dissonance.

Yes, maybe MR should demand to join the chaps team, out of inclusion. Don't the lads who retire (or are just not top material) from their sex class, do their B game in the women's. Wonder why it doesn't seem to be going the other way? Hmm.

It is rather cheap and squalid to voice support for the ripping away of the protections that keep women's sports fair. Certainly after personally benefiting so much from the level playing field. Don't other young women and girls similarly deserve fair sports?

It is 'trans' with no more than a professed identity though, isn't it? Quinn says that Quinn is not a woman. However, nothing more is involved and Quinn is biologically like all the other players on the women's team.

I need to correct my comment about Megan Rapinoe. MR is not trans. MR is same sex attracted. I was thinking of Quinn.

Sorry, I was being facetious. Of course I have only heard of Meg Rapinoe because of her sporting prowess. She excelled at football. As a woman. On women's teams. And is now throwing other women's chances at success away to pander to males.

I'm fucking furious with her.

Megan Rapinoe states that sport isn't the most important thing in life. True. So let's persuade transwomen of that and then they can make a quiet exit from women's sports.

I am also furious with her as she is not only pulling the rug out from under younger women and girls, she also safely promotes the notion that lesbians should be kind and date TW. It's enraging.

I believe Quinn has had breast removal surgery, but I would guess won’t start testosterone treatment until retirement.

All cyclists are equal but some are more equal than others?

Retiring sportsperson with an eye on a future career in whatever their version of Stonewall is, perhaps, rather than sports advocacy, if she seems so happy to throw women's sports under the bus?

I stand corrected if that is the case. So the same as the other women, only maybe sans breasts then.

the thing with "inclusion" on a podium, or in a final with eight lanes etc, is of course that it's zero sum - for every one TW who gets included you necessarily exclude one common or garden woman.

They've decided that fairness in terms of winning isn't the main point, inclusion is. They've basically created a new hierarchy for elite sport.

Why did you not point out that Quinn is a biological woman, the same as the other women on the woman’s team. Quinn rightly continues to play there because Quinn despite being a trans man would never be able to make a men’s team.

She left out fairness. And winning. Both of which she will know all about.

the thing with "inclusion" on a podium, or in a final with eight lanes etc, is of course that it's zero sum - for every one TW who gets included you necessarily exclude one common or garden woman.

Which in turn is why the rules have to be very strict.

You're inevitably excluding everyone apart from eight people on entry, and three on the podium. The rules are to make the exclusion criteria fair and meaningful.

And, given multiple events, those exclusions are what make the system inclusive. 8 places for men, and 8 places for women. Excluding men from those 8 means you include 8 women into the overall picture.