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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Reply from my Labour MP on single-sex spaces

29 replies

PotteringPondering · 20/06/2022 23:59

I recently wrote to my Labour MP:

The issue of single-sex spaces for women is sometimes seen as a culture-war issue, as if the protection of single-sex spaces is a reactionary, conservative, anti-trans agenda. But all the people I know who feel strongest about single-sex spaces for women (rape crisis centres, prisons, hospital wards, sports) are progressives on the left. Most are feminists, and many are Labour members.

I've lost count of the number of these people I’ve spoken to in recent months who believe Labour is misogynistic. Reasons given include:

• David Lammy’s description last year of those in Labour who want to protect single-sex spaces as ‘dinosaurs’.

• The repetition in the Party of a Stonewall line on the contested issue of gender identity; the ’no debate’ mantra that trans women are women; the controversial claim that sex is ‘assigned’ at birth; and the insistence that a self-identifying trans woman who is male-bodied should be allowed into women’s protected spaces.

• Tory MPs such as Miriam Cates from Sheffield are seen as heroes for speaking out on women’s single-sex spaces. By contrast, people see how Rosie Duffield has been treated by some Labour members for speaking out. Even Boris Johnson and Liz Truss (heaven help us) are being seen as heroes by some, because they are saying women’s spaces need to be protected. The Tories have rightly spotted there are votes in this.

I hasten to add: I take it for granted that trans people must be treated with respect, and must have rights. But my concern is the one voiced by the Labour Women’s Declaration group of party members: the agenda Labour makes most noise about is pushing through self-ID. There is no corresponding respectful debate about women’s rights, and whether self-ID encroaches on these. Many women I know are beyond furious about this, and feel betrayed.

At very least there should be a public acknowledgement in Labour that there is a proper balance of rights and protections to be found. Until there is, the Tories (whose political agenda I hate more than I can put into words) will be able to present themselves as guardians of women’s rights, and Labour as misogynistic.

We live in an age of major crises: Covid, Brexit, climate change, war in Ukraine. In comparison, this issue might appear minor. But you need to know that for lots of people I know, women’s single-sex spaces is the main issue that will determine how they vote – because it feels like the issue that most directly threatens their personal safety, and the issue that threatens to undo decades of hard-won women’s sex-based rights.

His reply:

This is a sensitive issue and with strong views on both sides. I was grateful for your thoughtful and considered email, and appreciate your concerns. I agree with you that both transgender people and women need to be treated with dignity and respect, and there is a clear need for a nuanced conversation about balancing transgender rights with the legitimate concerns about single-sex spaces.

Furthermore, it’s important that women are able to discuss these matters and for their perspective to be taken seriously. Debate should always be held in an atmosphere of respect for all points of view.

I appreciate your comments that Labour has not been clear enough in our support for women’s rights, and the need to balance these with trans rights, and will pass on your concerns to colleagues responsible for this area of policy. I am keen to receive representations on this issue to inform our policy and communication on what is a complex and important matter.

OP posts:
Sliceofpi · 21/06/2022 00:07

Not quite there yet

Sliceofpi · 21/06/2022 00:08

Your letter is excellent, Stella Creasey and Keir could do with a copy as well

LiesDoNotBecomeUs · 21/06/2022 00:22

@PotteringPondering this is a great letter. (I am another of the women you write about here. I too know women -and some men- for whom this matter is critical.)

BeethovenNinth · 21/06/2022 00:25

Thank you. Your letter is excellent. I am another furious woman.

FannyCann · 21/06/2022 00:28

I agree with you that both transgender people and women

So he acknowledges there is a difference. TWANW then.

maddy68 · 21/06/2022 00:40

I thought that was a respectful rely taking into account all views

RoaringtoLangClegintheDark · 21/06/2022 00:44

It’s progress. A distinct change in tone from the more usual “trans people so vulnerable, you so bigoted” response from Labour MPs.

Great letter from you!

Musomama1 · 21/06/2022 09:02

Brilliant letter, I'll have to copy and pinch some of this.

Abra1d1 · 21/06/2022 09:08

Good response from that MP.

BlackeyedSusan · 21/06/2022 09:10

Ooo, that was good. A great letter to copy. Well done.

PotteringPondering · 21/06/2022 09:55

Feel free to pinch ideas from my letter! I think best not to cut and paste the whole thing. If these letters are passed on to policy people, it's more powerful if they see individuals sharing their concerns in their own language rather than copying a form letter.

My thinking is this. The current government can't last for ever. There is a good chance Labour will be in the driving seat after the next election. So now is the time to be heard and influence party policy.

OP posts:
CraggyIslandTouristBoard · 21/06/2022 10:17

Yes a great letter. And at least your MP has the decency to reply - I’ve now sent 2 emails and a DM on Twitter to my own MP, and have posted on her FB page (on which she is very active) that I’m disappointed not to have received any response. She is mistaken if she thinks I’m just going to go away!

Manderleyagain · 21/06/2022 10:58

That reply does suggest a shift. It's a big improvement on many labour mp letters I have seen posted here, and also much better in comparison with the tory mp letter I first received in 2018. Keep going everyone.

Xoxoxoxoxoxox · 21/06/2022 11:23

It is good to hear a change in tone but I can’t help thinking that as soon as Labour get in it will go the way of the Scottish government and the will introduce self ID.
I can see them playing a more savvy less overt message before the election but if they gain power I am not sure who would have the stamina to stand up to trans activist’s, they are too captured.

smithsinarazz · 21/06/2022 11:28

Good letter, well done.

PotteringPondering · 24/06/2022 13:39

Thanks for the encouraging messages.

The latest by-election results underline the importance of influencing Labour policy now, before it finds its way into an election manifesto. Keep those letters to MPs and party members coming...

OP posts:
SoFasrus · 02/09/2022 14:31

The reply was empty.

Whatwouldscullydo · 02/09/2022 14:41

The reply was nonsense tbh.

Balancing/nuanced etc it cant be. Either males get access everywhere and anywhere where women are in vulnerable states or they don't. You can't balance it. Its males feelings or womens safety.

There are no rights to balance as trans people already have the same rights as everyone else.

Its just another response that gets everyone involved out if giving an actual answer.

FOJN · 02/09/2022 15:39

Your letter was excellent but the reply was less than impressive.

The matter is not complex. There are two sexes. No one can change sex. Until about 5 minutes ago we thought there were good reasons for the sexes to be segregated in some areas of life. Women have not become less vulnerable to male violence. Apart from men's hurt feelings what other reason is there for ignoring women's concerns?

It's only complicated if you lack the back bone to speak the truth.

Floisme · 02/09/2022 15:50

What that letter says to me is that Labour, or at least elements within the party, are just beginning to wake up to the damage they have done, but I think they're still a long way from even halting the juggernaut, let alone turning it around.

RoyalCorgi · 02/09/2022 16:05

Floisme · 02/09/2022 15:50

What that letter says to me is that Labour, or at least elements within the party, are just beginning to wake up to the damage they have done, but I think they're still a long way from even halting the juggernaut, let alone turning it around.

I agree. A year ago they were still in the mode of saying, in effect: "We support trans rights and you're just a disgusting old bigot." Now they've realised that the disgusting old bigots wield a hefty block of votes so they're going to pretend to be nice to us.

SoFasrus · 02/09/2022 16:12

PRIDE comes before a fall. Humble politicians who admit when they are wrong. Do you know of any?

TastefulRainbowUnicorn · 02/09/2022 16:21

Well done on sending that letter. The reply is rather feeble but better than Labour’s previous form.

I truly hope Sarah (who’s suing Survivor’s Network) is successful in her court case.

I think if she succeeds, it will be difficult for a Labour Government to reverse the progress on this issue. Too many people will know exactly what’s at stake.

Without that… it will be like every other country where Self-ID legislation has been pushed through against the will of the majority of the population. The governments doing it know it’s not popular but they do it anyway.

LittlePearl · 02/09/2022 16:55

Wow OP, that is a fantastic email (yours, I mean - though his reply is encouraging).

Like others, I think I will be borrowing it!

TheMarzipanDildo · 02/09/2022 17:14

I think that’s a pretty good response from the MP tbf. I like the use of ‘legitimate concerns’.