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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The Sport Issue - will this encourage early transition?

31 replies

TinaYouFatLard · 19/06/2022 21:50

I’ve been suspicious of the sport issue for a while. It seems such obvious trolling to me. I’ve wondered if the law of unintended consequences will mean that the restrictions on transwomen in sport will give the TRAs more reason to encourage pre-pubescent transition.

The FINA ruling today allows participation if transition completes before tanner stage 2 or age 12, which is a horrific thought.

OP posts:
KittenKong · 20/06/2022 08:40

Giving this person a very long slot to tell fibs.

NotBadConsidering · 20/06/2022 08:41

I don’t think it’s a concern, although I can understand why there’s a concern: TRAs are batshit, super competitive sports parents are batshit, put the two together…But my reasons are this:

• I think involvement in a social sport like swimming at a young age is likely protective for early transition, like most sports.

• I see how there is now a debate over “degree” of male puberty. Well that’s easily solved, but with the one thing everyone hates the idea of: genital inspection. A doctor would need to Tanner stage a male, coupled with records of bloods.

• but what will that show? It will show that males who are puberty blocked as part of transition have their genitals frozen at Tanner 2. Which is exactly the sort of fact TRAs want to avoid getting stuck in the public consciousness.

• Anyone who does transition fully with puberty blockers and CSH will never, ever be competitive in sport. No male who does this will be fit enough, well enough, nor good enough to compete with, let alone beat women. No female will be well enough, nor have any hope in hell of beating males.

• So the main risk will be a male who has been through male puberty, and their sporting organisations help them pretend they haven’t and lie about their pubertal staging with false records of transition. It’s not beyond the scope of Russia, or China, who have lied about gymnasts’ ages.

So the best thing overall would be sex chromosome testing and independent verification of something like CAIS.

(I still think, and have argued this here in the past, that there are unanswered questions about CAIS with small preliminary evidence showing it’s a condition over represented at the Olympics, but it can only be solved by mandatory sex chromosome testing.)

napody · 20/06/2022 08:51

MangyInseam · 20/06/2022 01:09

I did wonder if there will not be activists who try to use this as an argument to push earlier transition.

But in the UK at least, I think that may not work, there has been too much in print about the problems of transitioning children, and more is going to emerge. I don't think that genie will go back in the bottle.

Exact same thoughts crossed my mind.
I understand your worry though OP- I wouldn't be surprised if at least a few extreme voices proposed it.

Truthlikeness · 20/06/2022 08:55

Trans activists on Twitter have inevitably jumped on this part of the policy and are claiming it will lead to people transitioning children earlier (insert eye roll). Transitioning children is a whole separate issue which I think will be shut down sooner or later anyway.

But I don't think we should be entirely blasé about puberty-suppressed males not being fit enough to compete. A study of puberty suppressed (from age 13) Dutch male children showed they still reached average male height (which is much taller than females). While the negative effects of PBs are well documented, it doesn't seem to be universal. The first ever male to receive puberty blockers went on to become a veterinarian, so it presumably didn't have any negative effects on his brain development.

Males also have genetic advantages from conception - by 15 weeks in utero they are larger and stronger than females and remain so until girls hit puberty - slightly earlier - and then race ahead again once they reach puberty.

Male-born people should never be allowed in female sports. I think FINA tried to head off this potential objection to not including the puberty suppressed, but have just kicked the issue down the road.

KittenKong · 20/06/2022 08:57

I thought that’s what the activists wanted?

NotBadConsidering · 20/06/2022 10:12

The first ever male to receive puberty blockers went on to become a veterinarian, so it presumably didn't have any negative effects on his brain development.

That doesn’t necessarily follow. Maybe he had the potential to be super, super smart but ended up super smart. Which is good enough to be a vet. If the whole IQ bell curve shifts to the left from puberty blockers, there will still be people who are in the smartest percentiles on the right hand side of the curve.

It’s only 18 months ago that gender clinics published a consensus on how best to measure potential loss of IQ.

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