UK not polarised over trans equality

[SlouchingTowardsBethlehemAgain]

The British public are not bitterly polarised over trans equality, according to new research, which found a majority agreed schools should talk to pupils about transgender issues and that one in four knows a trans person personally.
Thought to be the most in-depth UK study to date of public attitudes to what has become a notoriously toxic discourse in politics and on social media, the report from More in Common identifies a radically different attitude among ordinary people, who approach issues of gender identity from a position of compassion and fairness, often informed by their own relationships with trans people. www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/16/britons-not-bitterly-polarised-over-trans-equality-research-finds

What's your AIBU?

That's very comforting, thank you for posting. The debate online is so toxic that it's good to hear real people think in a more nuanced way.

That’s nice
Nuanced is the best way to go, as is reasoned debate. Unfortunately some people seem to think you have to hold an absolute position
I also hope that the people questioned had all the relevant facts and properly understood the question. For example did the ones who believed Transwomen should be allowed in women only spaces understand that this meant people who were the same physically as they were before transition? Would the question have been more valid if physical characteristics had been referenced?

I don't think there's anything surprising in that, it's exactly what plenty of people on here have been saying for years (despite this apparently being a hot bed of transphobia).

However, I note that there is no reference to more sensitive sex specific spaces that women's refuges and rape counselling/crisis centres. That's a key issue for me.

I found this survey very reassuring and it fits quite well with my own views.

And? It's possible to be compassionate and fair and to also think women need single-sex (not gender) spaces away from males.

Published on Thursday, the report reveals widespread acceptance that a trans woman is a woman and a trans man is a man, with 46% agreeing, 32% disagreeing, and 22% who don’t know, with agreement highest among younger generations.

Do the people agreeing TWAW and TMAM realise that all you have to do is say you’re the opposite sex rather than have surgery? I doubt it. Most people don’t seem to think identity trumps biology.

According to the Times, Brighton was one of the centres for the survey. I suggest this means it was totally unrepresentative of average UK attitudes. Try repeating it in Bradford, for example!

So my personal opinion is that yes, I think schools should talk to pupils about transgender issues and yes, I know a transgender person personally.

However, I do still think there are concerns around serious issues such as safeguarding and fairness in sport. I don't think answering "yes" to the two questions you mention means that it's all hunky dory!

How does that help, though, without defining terms? 'a trans woman is a woman' is incorrect if a woman means female, and meaningless if a woman means 'feeling like a person who feels like they think a woman should feel'.

Did they actually explain to people that 'trans woman' means transitioned male person and not transitioned female person, as I definitely know people who assume it's the other way round?

one in four knows a trans person personally

I call bullshit on this - who the hell did they ask?? On generous estimates only 0.007% of the population are trans. This is therefore statistically impossible.

I don't think answering "yes" to the two questions you mention means that it's all hunky dory!

Yes, there are limitations of surveys. It's not possible to check respondents understanding of questions and by necessity, wording can't be too complex. I would hope in a situation like this that qualitative work was done alongside to add more nuance, but it doesn't look that that was the case.

Well indeed.

The report was written by an ex stonewall employee who is clearly biased as can be seen by the questions have you seen the times article on this

As with any survey, the results can be gamed, depending on what you ask and what information and definitions you give to the respondants.

This is no different.

Hi, OP. We're moving your thread to the Sex and Gender board now.

Yes, the discussion is polarized. Just look at the public treatment of Kathleen Stock, J K Rowling, Maya Forstater, Allison Bailey, Nina Power, Martina Navratilova, Sharron Davies, and countless others, all who have in common the one factor that they've tried to contribute respectfully to the discussion whilst also recognising that sometimes, biology matters.

What's happened to them is the online equivalent of being put in the stocks and pelted with rotten tomatoes. Worse, in fact, as it's also involved 'enough death threats to paper my living room with', as JKR puts it.

I wonder who commissioned and carried out this study, who funded it, and who, precisely, is telling the UK populace that in their majority they capitulate to this kind of treatment? Would it be men, perchance?

Think you may have a few too many zeroes there - did you mean 0.1%?
e.g. www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-81411-4
'Studies estimate that gender-diverse persons represent 0.1 to 2% of populations investigated' (whatever that means).

Any kid in a big Brighton school, or any of their parents, will know/know of at least one transgender student though.

Our family address book has at least 4.

Can anyone remember which Tory MP said the purpose of polls is to influence public opinion not to reflect it?

I do know trans people in RL. They have nothing in common with TRAs and know transwomen are not female.

Oh the thread has been moved, despite being about a story on the main page of the Guardian Online. Quelle surprise.

What do you mean by trans equality, and what does it show when people know trans people?
Obviously most of us now will know people who identify as trans, and most of us will have compassion surely, but ' trans equality' is a bit of a vague term as it could mean that you think trans people should be treated with the same respect as anyone else, or it could mean that you think males and females should be in the same sports categories if they want.
I know plenty of people that identify as trans. Not all agree on everything though, and its not as if people who criticise the concept of innate gendered souls, have just never met transpeople or want people to be treated badly.

If you include teenagers-
I know one very well (taking testosterone)
two of my wider circle friends have children who are socially transitioned, both autistic as it happens.

And a relative is currently going by they/them.

So the one in five figure really depends who you know and who you count.

Yeah but that describes me (well, to an extent- I have a couple of NB and trans friends and I obviously love them) and I’m still GC!

I suspect most said that people should be taught about trans issues at school because they haven’t thought it through. There are issues with social contagion and self misdiagnosis- which is a problem because the treatment pathway involves drugs with harsh side effects (or just harsh effects!) and surgery. Most people just aren’t aware of the problems, because the news doesn’t report on it and a small percentage of the population are on Twitter/Mumsnet. They just think it’s the new gay rights.

Other surveys suggest that if they’d asked people about whether or not male bodied transwomen should complete in women’s sport they’d get different answers…

OP , would you like to give the results on the question about inclusion of self identifying persons in sporting events which were previously restricted to natal women.

Thank you