A law that compels women to expose their bodies

[JellySaurus]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61796421

Another case where a law is made without consideration of its wider effects on women.

Not to mention its offensiveness, implying that a woman's swimwear is unhygienic because she is Muslim (or shy, or has skin cancer or Lupus).

Good on Grenoble for challenging it.

Last time I was regularly swimming (pre lockdown) it was the trend for hing women to swim in trunk shorts and ordinary T-shirts (over a bikini top).

Except that’s not what’s happening here, no-one is being forced to go swimming, so it’s still a choice.

Men have been forced to reveal more than they want for years to swim in France; I’ve not used the municipal pools there ever as I don’t want to have to wear speedos. This is exactly the same.

Don't you understand that, unsurprisingly, the women here are concerned about the women being affected by this. And that there is a law in France, not just local rules or customs, but a law that dictates what women may or may not wear.

But it doesn’t. No woman is going to be forced to go swimming, so it’s not forcing them to do anything.

I guess you can't understand that it is fundamentally wrong to restrict women's choices by law like this. Im not surprised that you don't understand it tbh.

But it’s fine to restrict men’s?

No, I don’t understand the double standard. If it’s OK to force men to wear specified clothing it’s also fine to do the same for women.

What is the French law that restricts mens choices in this way?

But it doesn’t. No woman is going to be forced to go swimming, so it’s not forcing them to do anything.

Yes it is forcing something on them. It is forcing women to expose parts of their bodies that they do not choose to expose, in order to access facilities that are supposedly available to everyone.

If a woman is not expected to reveal her shoulders and thighs on the Champs Elysees, why should she be forced to do so on the beach?

(Your analogy with men's swimwear is irrelevant, as that custom is not applied at the beach, whereas this law is applied to women at the beach.)

This law was intended to be 'just' an anti-Muslim measure. It is also a misogynistic anti-woman measure.

I dislike any cultural clothing that implies women need to cover their skin so my first instinct is to favor these types of prohibitions. Then I think for a moment, remind myself I believe in freedom of choice and tell myself to stop being stupid.

Also, it really isn’t much different than what I wear to the pool these days. Mine is pale blue so I don’t get extra heat from the sun. Long sleeve rash guard and tight fitting shorts that go to just above my knee. It very much resembles cyclist attire. It’s much better for my extremely pale complexion. I combine it with a hat, even in the water. I still wear tons of sun cream.

Their reasoning for the speedo requirement for men is also around hygiene.

I don't think it's irrelevant, there seems to be a sort of underlying cultural belief in France that swimwear needs to be very minimal to be safe and healthy, and I am sure that feeds into the ideas around modest types of women's swimwear. When people belive something is indicated by health and safety, or science, they will connect that with what they think are superstitious belief systems (anti-science.) So it feels especially justified to them to demand what they see as a rational approach to swimwear for all.

I have serious doubts that the premise around hygiene is well-founded, but IME that doesn't matter, so long as people believe it is. And challenging those kinds of beliefs can be surprisingly ineffective, people are very dismissive and even reactionary.

And FWIW, observant Mulim men aren't allowed to wear speedos, so they are affected by rules about this stuff too, at least potentially.

Also not a fan of wearing speedos.

The “hygiene” policy (at least as I’ve read it applying to men) is supposedly about preventing people from wearing a pair of shorts out in the street and then getting into the pool in them.

It’s nonsensical because a) how many people would actually do that? And b) there’s nothing stopping them chucking the budgie smugglers on as pants, underneath jeans or whatever, which surely makes the whole point moot.

I also agree that the French law around women’s swimwear has equal parts racism and misogyny to it.

Yes I agree too, especially as hygiene excuses can’t possibly apply at the beach, it’s just a cover.