Anyone know the legal position of single sex spaces in Ireland? Presumably post self-ID they don't exist. Anyone?

[bellinisurge]

Was going to post this in Craicnet but that is more of a general Topic area and I might get some time wasting TWAW nonsense.
But does anyone know whether, at least technically, there are still any single sex space exemptions in Irish law. Thanks.

I have been wondering this also.This is the problem with Self ID really, who is going to enforce single sex provisions in the face of this?
Our Equality act also specifically states 'gender' instead of sex which is frustrating.

Basically it's a complete shitshow over here and the government don't seem to care.

According to this article from Womensplace UK -

Section 5 (2) (g) of the Equal Status Act 2000 provides an exemption that treatment of persons on the gender ground are permissible “where embarrassment or infringement of privacy can reasonably be expected to result from the presence of a person of another gender”. However the new coalition government proposes to “Amend the gender ground in equality legislation, to ensure that someone discriminated on the basis of their gender identity is able to avail of this legislation.” It would appear that the 78% male government elected in February plans to do away with the protection offered to women and girls, for example, who might want to retain single-sex toilets in school.

https://womansplaceuk.org/2020/07/13/gender-recognition-ireland/

The article is 2 years old, so I'm not sure if that has happened yet.

Here's another article which mentions exemptions -

https://www.irishlegal.com/articles/stephen-kirwan-pitfalls-and-uncertainties-in-ireland-s-gender-recognition-laws

Section 7(2) of the Equal Status Act 2000 specifically prohibits discrimination in relation to the admission or the terms or conditions of admission of a person as a student in an educational establishment. Further it prohibits the access of a student to any course, facility or benefit provided by that establishment. This general protection however is subject to two important exemptions.

The first exemption, contained in section 7(3)(a) of the Equal Status Act, notes that where an educational establishment is not a third-level institution and admits students of one gender only then section 7(2) is deemed not to apply. The second exemption, commonly referred to as the ‘ethos exemption’, is contained in section 7(3)(c) of the Equal Status Act. This exemption permits a school which, in pursuing the objective of promoting certain religious values, can legitimately refuse to provide the requisite accommodations for transgender students on the basis that transgender identity does not form part of the religious ethos of a school.

So it appears the religious schools are able to ignore it on the basis of their religious ethos.

Thank you. That magic word "gender".

Yep, and since you can be whatever 'gender' you choose, it's basically meaningless.

I think this needs to be the focus of any politicians, groups or individuals in Ireland concerned with protecting women's rights: Campaigning for an amendment to equality legislation to include the ground of 'sex', as the word 'gender' is no longer considered a synonym.

Anyone opposing the addition of 'sex' as a protected characteristic would have to actively argue that
a) there's no difference between biological sex and gender identity, or that declaring a gender identity magically changes one's actual sex; an/or that
b) there are no forms of oppression, discrimination or marginalisation that the half of the population who are born female are uniquely or disproportionately at risk from; and/or
c) sex is an axis of oppression, but unlike the other recognised axes of oppression, it is one that does not figure into intersectional social justice and does not warrant any protection from discrimination in law.

Argument 'a' would just make it clear how divorced from reality the person arguing that case would have to be, and arguing 'b' or 'c' would be blatant misogyny.

If a campaign were to concern itself, not with removing 'gender' from equality legislation nor with replacing 'gender' with 'sex', but simply with acknowledging that the legal meaning of the word 'gender' has changed and therefore 'sex' must be treated as a discrete characteristic, how could that be effectively argued against? The debate itself would wake a lot of people up to the issues.

I think there was a debate on RTÉ radio today Liveline - the stuff that should have been discussed before the silly law was brought in. Many attacks of the vapours as the usual crew faint at being asked to consider Barbie Kardashian and other events that never happen

I understand that there were going to be quite a few exemptions in the law at one stage but nearly all of these were taken out at the last minute. I'm not a lawyer though.

One problem is the GRA15 section 18 (4).

The campaign was based around and male, who as far as I am aware, had testical removal surgery.
So the law was designed around an infertile male of good moral character.

The politicians did not factor in male rapist of no moral character.

So

18 (4) The person to whom the gender recognition certificate is issued shall not be required to produce it as proof of gender or identity for any purpose save as required by law.

A person who has ill intent can bluff and bully service providers to access single sex services and provision.

Ireland got lucky it was a hair cut not a ball wax which demonstrates that the exemptions to protect the service provider can be circumvented.

The save as required by law is why the Judges know that the male will be sent to the womens prison because the State has to pretend that the male is a female.

Thank you

I've never seen a mixed sex toilet in Ireland and I live here. However, I don't live in Dublin, where I suppose most of the wokesters live. In Dublin, I've only used the airport loos and they are definitely single sex.

In our local shopping centre, the loos are single sex. And in the private gym/pool I visit three times a week: single sex loos and changing room; also for two of the top hotels in my home city.

My impression in general is that people are ignoring it. But then again, I don't live in any of the trendy cities. So it could be different there.

The thing is that Self ID hasn't really infiltrated public spaces en masse, mostly because our population is small and the numbers of Self Identifying people are probably also correspondingly small.

But that still doesn't mean the law is not harmful in and of itself. The law is bullshit because it is legal fiction, and because on its' merit it disadvantages women and girls and eradicates our legal single sex protections.

We already know that violent criminals have used this law to access women's prisons. To me that is one of the worst examples of why this law is terrible.

Surely we should not be sitting around waiting for bad things to happen before we realise the problems inherent in Self Id.

I visited Penneys(Primark) today and used the changing rooms for the first time since Covid. They have removed the men and women signs so people are free to use both. I had two men in a changing cubicle beside me, father and son I think so harmless, but I found it all rather strange. The curtains don't cover the cubicles completely and I was very aware of the fact that I was semi-naked, alone and quite vulnerable. I don't want this for my daughter.