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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Harrowing first-person account of transboy culture

67 replies

Beancounter1 · 08/06/2022 23:55

Hi,
I found this article:
lacroicsz.substack.com/p/by-any-other-name?s=r

It is such a powerful read, if you want an insight into what some teenagers are going through. A young woman gives a detailed account of her transition and detransition, emphasising the emotional and psychological aspects.

OP posts:
IstayedForTheFeminism · 09/06/2022 00:43

Wow. So well written, so insightful. I need to digest it more l think.

FemaleAndLearning · 09/06/2022 01:02

Helena is amazing and her story is not the one of a young girl struggling to be a lesbian. I listened to her speak in a Detrans webinar recently. She really helped me understand heterosexual girls wanting to be boys/men. She got into fandom really big. Due to low self esteem and body image issues, normal teenage girl stuff, the fandom don't like girl characters for example Hermione. So they do shipping which is where they make relationships between male characters such as Harry and Draco, this leads to watching gay pornography and then eventually to believing they are a gay boy/man. Obviously with a lot more steps in between, being part of an online community all encouraging and reinforcing the fiction that they create between themselves.

BenCooperisaGod · 09/06/2022 03:41

Jesus that makes me want to bin my router. Tumblr sounds like a total cess pit.

aweegc · 09/06/2022 06:55

"A major aspect of Tumblr culture has always been social justice ideology. Things that are now being played out and witnessed by the general public on platforms like Twitter and TikTok, like dissociative identity disorder LARPers, demisexuals, neopronouns, otherkin, and everything you see on @LibsOfTikTok, have long existed in an uncannily identical form on tumblr.com. The oppression hierarchy of racial and gender identities now being written into law in many of our once serious nations was the state religion of the People’s Republic of Tumblr long before your political junkie uncle knew the term “CRT”. As cultish religions tend to operate, open devotion to the religion is mandatory. Perhaps the outsiders most likely to understand the way social dynamics worked on that website would be survivors of Scientology or the Jehovah’s Witnesses. On Tumblr, the situation was such that any claim to being “oppressed” would accumulate social credibility, while any unfortunate “privileged” status was justification for verbal abuse. As a “privileged” person, you were expected to constantly grovel and apologize, you had no right to speak on any issue involving the group you were “oppressing”, and you could not object in any way to any mistreatment hurled against you because of your race, gender, or sexuality.

"I found myself in a bit of a double bind. On one hand, I had found what felt like the perfect group of friends who understood me on an intuitive level, who I was able to talk to openly about the things I liked and made me “weird” in real life, but on the other hand I was a “cishet white girl” in an environment where that was one of the worst things to be. Since Tumblr users are mostly biological females, the “cishet white girl” holds the position of most privileged and therefore most inherently bad group. In this climate, you are made to feel guilty and responsible for all the horrors and atrocities in the world. No hardship you could possibly go through could ever be as bad as the prejudice and genocide POC and LGBT people face every. Single. Day. Insert clap emoji. LGBT people and POC can’t even walk out of their houses without being murdered by cishet white people just like you!

Its understandable that any young person exposed to this kind of belief system would grow to deeply resent being white, “cis”, straight, or (biologically) male. The beauty of gender ideology is it provides a way to game this system, so that you can get some of those targets off your back and enjoy the camaraderie of like-minded youths. You can’t change your race, pretending to have a different sexuality would be very uncomfortable in practice, but you can absolutely change your gender, and it’s as easy as putting a “she/they” in your bio. Instantly you are transformed from an oppressing, entitled, evil, bigoted, selfish, disgusting cishet white scum into a valid trans person who deserves celebration and special coddling to make up for the marginalization and oppression you supposedly now face. Now not expected to do as much groveling and reaffirming to everyone how much you love checking your privilege, you can relax a little and talk about your life without wondering if you are distracting from the struggles of or speaking over marginalized groups, because you are marginalized too. With the new pronouns often comes a wave of positive affirmation from friends and followers, and the subconscious picks up quickly that there’s a way to make the deal of being on Tumblr even sweeter.

This is the incentive I felt to comb through my thoughts and memories for things that might be further evidence that deep down, I wasn’t really a girl. I hated my body; it must be because I don’t like that its female. Boys have never been interested in me like they are with other girls; well, maybe I would be attractive as a boy, and then I could be like all these cute “gay trans boys” I saw dating each other online. I didn’t have many friends, it must be because being a girl isn’t my “authentic self”, and that was getting in the way of my social life. Plus, people were nicer to me since I said I was trans so that must be an indication that being trans is the right thing to do to make friends. Female sexuality is hypersexualized and pornified, yet it’s supposed to be “empowering” for women to do porn, be prostitutes, or have dangerous, kinky, scary sounding sex with many different men. I heard that my discomfort with this made me “vanilla”, and a girl who is vanilla has no chance of really pleasing a man when competing with “empowered” women. I must not have really been meant to be a girl, because if I was, this wouldn’t all be so scary and confusing. I felt like my family didn’t care about me or pay attention to me, it must be because they subconsciously have always known I’m trans and they’re transphobic. I mean, they did make fun of Caitlyn Jenner that one time. They hate me! Just wait until I tell them I’m going to start testosterone; they’ll have to pay attention to me then

Sorry it's such a long quote and I post it with a strong recommendation to read the article in its entirety.

This section, however, is particularly important in understanding where so many young people are coming from, not only on trans issues, although primarily. How many parents have really monitored Tumblr?! Not their fault because we just can't be on top of everything, but a light needs shining on this app.

I also know a teen girl who has ROGD, and ticks most of the standard boxes for why it's developed. I wish her mother would read this (she won't - we've agreed to disagree as apparently I know nothing about teens as my kids aren't teens...).

Circumferences · 09/06/2022 07:53

The answer.
Get your kids off the internet.

mrshoho · 09/06/2022 08:00

Yes this resonates with my daughter's experience of online social groups on discord. She is still heavily influenced but we are in a better place than we were 4 years ago. A group of misfit teens diagnosing each other and each one wanting a label. I constantly had to reiterate that people are not always as they seem online. I spent ages finding examples and helping her to see that some people had specific agendas that possibly were detrimental to her.

Clangyleg · 09/06/2022 08:14

This is an important piece of writing, and I can see how some young people get sucked in, through idealism gone poisonous, through confusion and distress and so on. I suppose if we can only see them through the worst parts, perhaps as they see a wider view, and come off line, there is hope. But the damage done on the way is enormous and possibly irreparable . Feel so sad and angry for the next generations.

Zoeslatesttrope · 09/06/2022 08:41

My autistic niece had ROGD, thankfully doesn't now.
I am so grateful I am older. I am autistic with body dysmorphia and would have leapt onto this bandwagon without a backward glance.

Beowulfa · 09/06/2022 08:42

I feel so sorry for today's teenage girls faced with this tedium. Back in my day we just listened to Radiohead and wrote shit poetry.

Boiledbeetle · 09/06/2022 08:52

That was a really sad read.

I'm not very awake so this could come out as word salad.

I suspect a large majority of the current cohort of trans kids will be on the same trajectory as Helena.

I'm glad she found her way back to the real world eventually.

I'd want every young kid who thinks they are trans to read it. But you know it would just get waved away as GC propaganda.

To those who have children currently caught up in this gender ideology lifestyle my heart goes out to you. And to the children who are currently caught up in the worse effects of this, the drugs, the surgery, I hope you eventually get the help you need because it's very apparent that you won't get it from your trans allies.

Right I need coffee and a cat 🐱 to stroke.

MyGhastIsFlabbered · 09/06/2022 09:47

My son is 12 and currently gender fluid/non-binary. This article highlights exactly why I think he's decided this. So far I'm supporting him because he only wants to go as far as wearing dresses and skirts and using they/them pronouns. But I have referred him for some counselling to get to the bottom of why he's made this decision as I'm not convinced he genuinely wants to be female or even non-binary.

mrshoho · 09/06/2022 09:51

When I look back I realise I just never joined the dots up with what my daughter was immersed in and the wider gender ideology movement. At the time I was busy helping her come to terms with her autism diagnosis and her mental health anxieties. I always had doubts about her online socialising but was reassured by our local autism support organisation that this was a place for her to express and get support and feel like she belonged. I backed off and gave her more time to spend online but pretty soon this became her world. I thought I was helping her and her mental health did improve in that she was able to attend school etc. But she distanced herself from family and real life friends. It was through my daughter I first learnt of the many gender and sexual orientation terms. I naively assumed this was the latest teen fad and back then knew only one or two young people in real life who identified as a different gender. So I paid attention but waited for the fad to fade. This was also the time when she began asking to remove her uterus and breasts, not because she wanted to be man, more because she didn't want to grow up, hated periods and was disturbed by male attention that began. I realised this was a big part of her online discussions but we always made it clear that this was not possible at her young age. Then it seemed to explode in the real world and the horror of realising that the movement was being pushed by adults dawned. I felt stupid for not being aware of the feminism issues and guilty of assuming the trans ideology was something affecting a very small marginalised group. Every day I continue to learn.

Wifwolf · 09/06/2022 10:01

My daughter told me when she was probably 15 or 16 that Tumblr was filled with people indulging in Opression Olympics. Thank goodness she rejected it herself, because I had no idea how toxic it was, even though I’d probably witnessed signs of it on another website I frequented, which I suspect was eventually subsumed by young people who claimed various weird identities.

The power of this movement is terrifying. I feel for all the girls like Helene, who were tempted in. She describes the mechanisms in a very candid and clear minded way.

But the greatest harms are being perpetrated by the medics and social workers who are enabling this wave of self-harm. How they got here, I don’t think I will ever understand.

IvyTwines · 09/06/2022 10:12

This is a really important issue, and it's the piece of the jigsaw that has been rather ignored when it's one of the most important in explaining what is currently happening to the minds of this generation of teenagers. And the way blogsites operate: it's not like school where even if someone isn't talking to you that day they still have to look at you. If you have been designated somehow unfashionable online, your posts on threads go ignored, unanswered. I can see why a kid might suddenly decide to overcome this and rejoin the gang by declaring herself 'trans' or 'enby' and then bathe in the shower of hearts coming her way. There's also the observation on the 'Fandom to Tans pipeline' thread on Ovarit that girls enjoying slash fiction were made to feel politically uncomfortable about 'appropriating' gay male relationships - the solution? Declare yourself a gay man too.

EllieBellend · 09/06/2022 10:52

Really interesting. I wonder how we can stop young people getting swept away with this new ideology. Helena herself says she would have rejected any intervention.

I was angry about having this kind of information kept from me by the community, which I now understood exhibits information control dynamics similar to that of cults or extreme religious sects. I was angry that clinicians either didn’t understand or didn’t make the effort to read this information about demographics and gender dysphoria. I was angry that I had been affirmed every step of the way, and only questioned when I was starting to express regret. I was angry that people who seemed to be making a genuine attempt to understand this new phenomenon were being targeted, and I was angry that I would have targeted them too if I had known about this not long ago.*

Musomama1 · 09/06/2022 11:00

Blimey. Yes I need a cup of tea and a cat to stroke too pp.

The kind of extreme things found on the internet are being 'normalised' and no-one wants to be 'vanilla'.

In my day the low self esteem girl often did the teen tribe thing: goth, emo, punk whatever. It was seen as edgy, but seemingly that's not enough these days.

IvyTwines · 09/06/2022 11:15

Today's teens don't have much of a music scene. Think how much we had growing up in the 70s, 80s, 90s, an astonishingly good music, gig, club and rave culture experienced live and together, in person, almost entirely killed off by the internet, gaming, 'free' music sharing, gentrification closing live and club venues.

ThinkingaboutLangClegosaurus · 09/06/2022 11:50

mrshoho · 09/06/2022 08:00

Yes this resonates with my daughter's experience of online social groups on discord. She is still heavily influenced but we are in a better place than we were 4 years ago. A group of misfit teens diagnosing each other and each one wanting a label. I constantly had to reiterate that people are not always as they seem online. I spent ages finding examples and helping her to see that some people had specific agendas that possibly were detrimental to her.

Well done, MrsHoho — sounds as if your good sense and perseverance are paying off. But my God, what a struggle. And shame on those adults who are pushing children into this.

Beamur · 09/06/2022 13:56

I had an interesting conversation with my DD recently - I think we both learnt something new. We were chatting about books and TV stuff and it strayed into fandoms and teen friendly topics. She loves Heartstopper but doesn't like Alice Osemans books as much (darker and more woke). Off the back of that conversation it made me realise that the reach and impact of fandoms and fanfiction is probably a mystery to many parents and I think has taken over the role of being the place where many young teens find their tribes in a way that feels safe (but the horrors are harder to spot).
The world of webcomics is also huge.
In turn I think I have made DD consider whether romantic/soft porn depictions of gay male relationships written by often older women should be taken as being a reliable depiction of actual relationships between men. I suspect there's a lot of young women consuming this material - probably because stuff featuring women is often (not always) written from the male gaze.

Abhannmor · 09/06/2022 14:56

I hope things get better for Helena going forward. She is a talented writer. Her story is very moving yet not mawkish? That is hard to pull off , she has a way with words. The explanation of 'fandom' is a real eye opener for me. Keep writing, Helena if you read this

TofuDelights · 09/06/2022 15:06

IvyTwines · 09/06/2022 11:15

Today's teens don't have much of a music scene. Think how much we had growing up in the 70s, 80s, 90s, an astonishingly good music, gig, club and rave culture experienced live and together, in person, almost entirely killed off by the internet, gaming, 'free' music sharing, gentrification closing live and club venues.

Totally agree with this. I feel a bit mean for thinking this way, especially as I can really understand the need for acceptance, validation and 'likes', but I do think that it would benefit these young people to spend more time offline and reconnect with people and the actual world they live in.

JemimaPuddlegoose · 09/06/2022 15:12

A friend of mine had exactly the same experience (but fortunately for a much shorter time period, and didn't start hormones) - she was part of a fandom for a show that revolved around gay men, announced she was trans, and changed her name to the main celeb's real life boyfriend's name. Then the show got cancelled and she wound up meeting a guy and falling in love with him, got married very quickly, and just forgot all about being trans. The man she fell in love with happened to be a Pastor so she went from being trans and heavily into queer fandom to being a Christian pastor's wife very quickly. I guess she was searching for something.

Femalewoman · 09/06/2022 15:13

No wonder so many young people are fucked up

Oblomov22 · 09/06/2022 15:21

"The answer.
Get your kids off the internet."

No. I don't agree with that. Loads of dc fortunately don't go down this path. We have to look more closely at those that do: often unhappy, unsettled, abc instead of recognising that it's ok/normal time feel that way, and listen to Radiohead and write shit poetry, then go down / get dragged into this. But why that happens is complex.

Fortunately most teens don't.

HermioneWeasley · 09/06/2022 15:29

This makes sense. I don’t have tumblr but I do read a lot of fanfic and you can see how these girls have absorbed these beliefs - they seem to genuinely believe that men can get pregnant, that gay men find trans men sexy and that actual gay men in relationships act like teenage girls with lots of crying about feelings and snuggling and ice cream. It’s extremely odd and very uncomfortable- a sort of infantilising and emasculating of gay men.

this picture is a perfect example - drawn by a young trans man. The hundreds (thousands?) of comments from anime avatars were all about how cute and wholesome it was. These people are fleeing adult sexuality. They are desperately immature.

Harrowing first-person account of transboy culture
Harrowing first-person account of transboy culture