Mark draford on women

[Hoardasurass]

You have to here it to believe it
www.spectator.co.uk/article/drakeford-adds-to-labour-s-trans-troubles

Couldn't he have saved time by just saying, "I'm an idiot, don't feel obliged to vote for me".

I really can't understand what he is trying to say, but it seems to boil down to the idea that "inclusion" that risks breaking women's necks and causing them permanent brain damage is the sensitive and kind way forward. Daft old sod.

Laura Jones has been aware of this issue for a while and I hope this is the start of raising the issue more often in the Senedd.

So he reminded the Welsh Tory, who was trying to use this question to trip him up, that the English Tories were / possibly still are fully on board with TWAW?

My starting point is the same as Penny Mordaunt's—the UK Minister responsible at the time—who said that the UK Government's starting point was that transgender women are women. That's my starting point in this debate.

That's not a 'starting point' Mark. You will have to go back further and explain the basis upon which transgender women are women. Then we debate.

I’m immensely disappointed in him saying this.

We live in Wales the senedd go round in circles with this question

I haven’t watched the clip. Did the opposition MS following up on his “you can’t be too inclusive” position, by giving him concrete examples of how being inclusive to males is, or risks being, exclusionary to females?

If the opposition MS is genuine in wanting to protect women’s rights, she would try to get him to listen to and genuinely engage in these very real issues, in order to persuade him to think differently and less simplistically about the issues. Adopting a “landing a cheap shot / easy punch” approach like they do in Westminster won’t achieve that. It’ll lead him to dismiss the question as political posturing.

Don’t get me wrong: I don’t think that being able to define what a woman is not important; it’s vital. I just don’t think it will be effective approach in getting him to start to think differently.

I do think his answer about respecting others views and finding a way forward offers a starting point for local groups to ask him to deliver on that by meeting them.

I think he was probably trying to articulate the fact that very few people care, but that those that do care very much indeed. Transpeople have a horrifically hard time, of course ... but he has to register that GC people claim also to feel oppressed by transpeople. Like most people, he probably won't understand why GC fans feel "erased", especially if they've never even seen a transwoman, never mind mixed with one, in a toilet, changing room or sport. At bottom he won't understand why the second most powerful demographic in society - natal women - is claiming to be "oppressed" by one of the least - if not the least - powerful demographic in society. And he'll be trying his level best not to show how utterly pathetic and contemptible he finds that.

I hope that helps. :)

You think that a politician can’t understand that female humans object to being oppressed by the most powerful demographic in society: natal males?

They're not the most oppressed group in society. Over the years I've volunteered with various different organisations in South Wales, including the homeless and refugees. I was at a rally at the Senedd protesting about the trans plan the other year and I talked to several of them. They were young, white, university students and graduates. They looked middle class and they sounded middle class. Were the people dressed in black who tried to prevent Posie speaking in Birmingham the other day the oppressed? No.

Sorry, that didn't make a lot of sense. I posted by accident. I've seen real oppression in Wales: grinding poverty, racism, addiction, homelessness, the utter despair of people who've seen death and disaster and are struggling to make Wales their new home. Compared to them the transgender population is privileged enough to have nothing to worry about except their luxury beliefs.

Yep, you don't see the kids of single mums on council estates identifying as "trans"/"non-binary" left, right and centre. It's the middle class kids doing it.