DD's 10 year old friends saying they are trans

[yesitssea]

DD is 10 and is being tested for autism and so sometimes finds navigating friendship difficult.

Two of her closest friends (girl and a boy) have told her today that they are both trans. Both kids spend a lot of time on the internet. My daughter doesn't as she doesn't like gaming.

She was really upset coming out of school and treated it as a really big thing and said she didn't know what to say to them.

I told her to say 'oh well that's nice' and not mention it again. Said they'd likely forget about it in a week or so.

I said that at their age they are just parroting something they've read on the internet. They are a little girl and a little boy and they can dress and present and adopt whatever gender roles they want to, but that you can't change sex.

She threw her hands up and said 'ohhh you just don't understand!!! It's serious!'

I don't know what else to say to her. She thinks it's some massive serious thing and that it's going to dominate all of their friendship going forward.

What do I do?

I have to confess I know sfa about transgender issues ; to me assigned male/female at birth means the adults present used their eyes.

Don't say they will forget/change their minds etc ; just keep lines of communication open and also monitor her computer use etc as the internet is very useful and fun; but not always for a child.

The thing is, it is a big deal. The friends whole identities are going to be tied up on this and possibly their whole conversation too.
I hope your school has good safeguarding in place re toilets & not changing names without parental request.

She thinks it's some massive serious thing and that it's going to dominate all of their friendship going forward.

Likely she is right. Depending on where these two are getting their brainwashing info from, chances are everything is now going to orbit them and their instructions need for affirmation.

I have no idea what the schools policy is on this tbf, they are only in year 5.

The reason I said it wasn't a big deal was because I think it's just all talk, they are still very immature little kids.

Maybe I should take it more seriously. But I don't think it will go anywhere.

Talk with her about why it's a big deal. You need to understand what your DD is trying to tell you.

It’s popular/on trend to be trans. My 11 yo came out as lesbian, a year later she has a boyfriend.

Just go with it.

I wouldn't be quite as dismissive in the language used to discuss this. They might forget it quickly, but equally they might not. They may be parroting things they've heard or read without much reflection, but I wouldn't use that terminology when talking to your daughter. Otherwise you are immediately putting up barriers rather than maintaining an open dialogue.

If she raises it again and asks what she should say to them, then I would suggest that she doesn't have to say anything in particular about it unless asked by them to comment. As to whether it will dominate and change their friendship group, it might, if this is the only focus these two children have. I would try to ensure she has interests outside of these two friends for that reason.

We had this at our school. Eldest child got that it needed to be treated as sensitive, though didn’t really understand. Youngest thought it was a joke as is quite literal and would not believe that a person could possibly change from one to the other - they just didn’t see it as even a possibility. As with you, OP, my concern would be with where this is coming from. There seems to be a lot of jumping on the bandwagon and the two families this affects at our school - well, if you’d asked me 6 months ago to pick those most likely to have a child who claimed they were trans, it would have been these two. I don’t know. I try and teach kindness and understating. Mine have to be polite and courteous but then don’t have to like everybody and they don’t have to be friends with everybody. Is this likely a phase for the children in question? Yes. Is is driven by influences from home? Yes.

And the useful idiots argue that this is not social contagion. Your poor daughter OP.
I'd suggest a conversation with the school - although they may well be hopeless about it given the capture of schools by the Stonewall / Mermaids extremists.
This is well worth parents of primary children reading and sharing widely - especially schools considering going down the unthinking "affirmation" route.

www.transgendertrend.com/childhood-social-transition/

Is she worried that because her friends are trans they will not want to be friends with her because she isn't? I'd try to reassure her that they are still her friends and want to spend time with her, doing the same things as before.

Whatever the truth of the matter is: it is a big deal for her right now and hence, regardless of subject matter, I'd suggest to treat it as such.

Yes, hindsight is 20/20. Look, at 16 (so quite a bit older than your DD now), I was a passionate anarchist and wanted to be a professional agitator/revolutionary. At 36, I was a corporate executive laughing about how 16-year-old me would have made a passionate argument that, in theory only (because I never would have gone there in practice), politically motivated violence against the likes of present me could be justified.

I had to find out for myself! (In my particular case, it was the painful realisation that neither my personality nor my limited patience were compatible with consensus-based decision making).

But I am forever grateful to my parents for giving me the time to figure it out on my own, taking me as seriously as you can a teen who wants to be a professional agitator but also, crucially: preventing any serious harm from really coming my way in the process.

My mum and dad did this extremely well. I recommend their approach (again: regardless of the actual subject).

If my DsD and her pals are anything to go by, it is likely going to change again next week. Much like I’d be a goth one week and go preppy the next. I was also a ‘boy’ for a good year or two in Y5. I think the way kids experience it actually opens doors for quite good and safe conversations about identity. It’s essentially usually dress up. Genuine dysporia usually presents later and in other more worrying ways.

Yes I think you are all right. I'm not saying anything bad to her really, just to not engage/delve into it.

These two are on the internet all the time, the girl has 4 brothers and is quite masculine anyway, they are both into anime, and gaming and I'm sure I could guess that if it was any two in the class it would be these two. (Same as another poster)

She hasn't mentioned it today and I'll probably not probe.

This makes me sad because like you say it is probably ‘just talk’ (two kids in a class who happen to be friends both actually being trans is very very unlikely, for one thing), but it will be so awkward for them to backtrack. If I had done this at 10 I’d end up on a medical pathway purely as a result of embarrassment.

Three big red flags there - 10 year olds on the internet all the time, anime and gaming. They all seem to be interwoven with this massive explosion in children saying they're trans.

That child is smart. It's not a possibility. We are not snails.

I see on the news that they are considering raising the legal smoking age from 18. Each year there would a a raise such that kids today could never legally buy tobacco products. Because of the known danger to future health and well-being. Seems like exactly the same arguments could be made here with under and over 18s undergoing medicalised and surgical ‘transition’. There could be as much social transition as needed. Cosmetic surgery is not evidenced to improve distress, professional emotional support is needed.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-61718468

We need a deradicalisation programme parents can follow with their children. Or one that insulates them against indoctrination into gender ideology.

I've been talking to my 9yo about trans things on an off throughout his life. It started when he was 3 and very upset to learn that he wouldn't be able to grow a baby in his tummy or breastfeed when he grew up. He asked if there was any way he could be a woman instead of a man when he got older. I was still in automatic be kind/TRA mode, so told him that some boys did grow up to live as women but that it wasn't possible to have a baby or breastfeed real milk. He thought that was pointless.

Over the years, whenever it might naturally come up in conversation, I've told him facts about the differences between male and female bodies and the efforts some people go to in order to present as the opposite and the limitations of transition. We've talked about how some people claim not to have any sex/gender. We've talked about why people might want to be trans/NB and whether or not it makes most people who live that way happier or sadder. I do my best to give him facts and let him work out his own opinion from there and when we talk about it, I stick to talking about people with genuine dysphoria rather than complicating the discussion with other reasons that people might transition. And while he understands why a person might want to grow up to be the opposite sex, his current opinion is that unless technology was such that you actually could really change sex, then it's best to try to find things you love about being the sex you are.

I know that as he gets older his opinions will change as he gets more input from teachers and peers. Some friends of mine have 12 year olds that have recently had talks at school that are full on gender woo, so I'm honestly very worried about that. Both because I don't want him learning bollocks but also because I don't want him disagreeing with what they are being taught and ending up being ostracised as a result. So it's a bloody fine line to walk between protecting him from woo but also from being too outspoken about stating obvious facts if he isn't taken in by the woo.

My DD and her friends were 10 when they suddenly all had to adopt an LGBTQ+++ identity. These were gay, NB, bisexual and he/him (for a girl). My DD announced she was bisexual - I know her and I strongly suspect she quickly picked whatever involved the least commitment or evidence! It was so, so obviously about being in the cool crowd and nothing else. The most exciting part was getting flags and badges to match.

2 years on they have mostly forgotten about it. I said to DD she doesn't have to decide or announce anything like that at her age and she's free to change her mind. The one who was identifying as a boy is by far the one with the most personal problems and MH issues, and still has the male name, but does nothing to enact "being a boy" (i.e. still looks like a fairly typical girl, friends with girls, uses girls' facilities etc) and DD says she probably just feels embarrassed about announcing she's not a boy after all.

Of course that's not to say that any of this lot might not genuinely be gay, bi, or even trans adults but that's unrelated. It's fashion. How anyone in authority can fail to see this is beyond me.

It can be serious but only because kids are being taken seriously instead of left to see if they grow out of it. I think the best path is to be relaxed and remind them they can change their mind and that people often do.

Since the start of the year, my DD(11) in Year 6 has been a lesbian and then bisexual and had a girlfriend for about a week (they held hands but that seemed to be the extent of the "relationship). When she received no reaction and just a "that's fine, we'd love you whatever your preference" she then said her friend was trans and she thought she might be too. Again she got a "we'd support whatever decision is right for you". 3 months on, she is now back to being a straight girl and has a boyfriend.

I think it's all so confusing for them at such a young age. It's difficult to know what advice to give you for your DD as it is awkward. I hope it doesn't affect their relationship.