DM - Teenage girls having their breasts cut off will not solve their emotional problems, says founder of Transgender Trend STEPHANIE DAVIES-ARAI

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www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-10885201/Transgender-Trend-founder-Teenage-girls-having-breasts-cut-not-solve-emotional-problems.html

That's a really good thing
Anyone got any tips on how to get my DD to listen to my very sensible and logical arguments.
She just shuts me down, stating that I am violating her boundaries if I even try and discuss this with her.
I am so worried in regard to this and feel she acts like she has been brainwashed.

@IdiotCreatures

Just keep pointing out the flawed logic each time it crops up. Set her a challenge: research and argue from the opposite perspective, as an exercise, and you’ll do the same. Tell her that you used to find it hard to stomach opposing viewpoints when you were her age, but that to listen is an important social skill.

I’m a secondary school teacher and I always ask my form to look at things from different perspectives, and I challenge this ideology often, because teenagers only tend to hear one side of it. Obviously I don’t tell them what to think (or what I think), but I remind them of the importance of evidence-based debate and considering opposing viewpoints. We also have no ‘no debate’ or hurt feelings, we agree that if we’re going to debate something, then we remain respectful.

That's a good interview with Stephanie.

IdiotCreatures - have a look at the Transgender Trend website - there are all sorts of useful articles - also Genspect which is for parents:genspect.org/

If your DD is school aged then "brainwashed" (ie social contagion) is likely to be precisely what has happened to her.

It is a kind of subversive brainwashing. Our daughters, because of misinformation, believe the answer is to change their bodies removing any trace of their biological sex. The normalisation of cosmetic surgery has been detrimental in my opinion. My daughter from age 14 would ask me how to arrange to have her uterus and breasts removed. This began when the realisation that she would be having periods every month sunk in as well as the unwanted male attention that started to affect her. That was 4 years ago and at first I couldn't understand why she considered such drastic measures to be a possibility. She had been discussing the ins and outs in chat rooms with other confused kids but who else was influencing their chat I do not know. She still moans about her periods but gets on with it just as the billions of other women do. I always told her that yes they're a pain but also a sign that her body is working perfectly and how fortunate she is to be healthy. I just wouldn't entertain it and had many arguments. It was around this time she said there was something wrong with her because she wasn't sexually attracted to boys or girls and gave herself a label of asexual. I told her she didn't need a label and that at 14 it was fine to not have any sexual interests. She developed her own style of loose t shirts and jogging bottoms and is now holding her head up when out and about. She is socially immature and still not interested in sexual relationships at 17 but now sees that as ok. Her high school years were torturous for many reasons. What didn't help was her all girls school's insistance on wearing a skirt. She felt self conscious walking to school and often hid under a big coat even in warm weather. Now at sixth form she can wear what she likes and she has a times shown a spark of being proud to be a woman. She is very much still influenced by the trans gender online movement but now at least is willing to think about the issues. A breakthrough for me was when she agreed that Males under no circumstances should be anywhere near Women's prisons. A small victory.

It just shouldn't need saying should it. Let alone be an article.

Its time these surgeries were seen as the drastic and complication riddled major events that they are as opppsed to sone easy quick solution to a range of problems most if which outside of the control of the young girl.

Not sure how being unable to raise your arms above your head will solve problematic periods or being in a class full of mysoginistic teems.

Hooray for Stephanie - what a brilliant display of compassion and common sense. It's hard to believe anyone could disagree (let alone see this as hate speech)

Every time we see someone frothing about Stephanie or Transgender Trend online, it's always worth pointing others in the direction of the actual site and encouraging them to read what's written and look at who the authors are. It very quickly disabuses lurkers about any toddler complaints about transphobia. Like this article:

www.transgendertrend.com/childhood-social-transition/

mrshoho it sounds like your child might still be asexual and trans. Your child hated wearing skirts, which are typically feminine clothes, and now prefers wearing baggier clothes. This is really common with trans guys, because wearing baggier clothes helps to hide their feminine body shape.

It's really common with women of all ages, because it is perfectly normal for women to object to men and boys staring at their breasts.

You do not need to have an inner sense of masculinity for this.

Women and girls who don't like being sexually objectified are still women and girls!

Some of you seem to think that any woman who wants to be treated with respect can't be a woman.

🤯

I always wore baggy clothes at that age. Not because I am trans, I'm not, I'm a woman, but because I hated receiving sexualised looks comments from disgusting men old enough to be my grandfather. Many of my friends did the same, to avoid the same obscene attention. I don't think men have miraculously improved since then, so there will still be girls and young woman dressing to avoid abusive attention. She may be trans, but she is statistically more likely to be a young woman in a patriarchy with a rape culture.

hey I mean I don't know them so I'm not saying I can make any decisions, I can only read into what the mum is saying. I'm glad that her child is looking online for opposing viewpoints into it, rather than just have a single viewpoint from home. A healthy balance of opinions from different sources is good!

We're probably only a couple of years away from people on the internet earnestly assuring our younger sisters and daughters that if they want to receive equal pay to men, that indicates that they are "trans guys". Telling young women that real women find it affirming of their "cis gender identity" when they are taken for granted at work and paid less than male colleagues.

Unfortunately the exact opposite is true

Your post reminds me of the messages she was receiving on her online chat groups. As her parent I see it that she is socially immature and self conscious of her body but is learning to love herself and finding her place in the world. At 14 she was confused and probably would have been easily led down the trans road if we had facilitated her. At 17 she feels much more comfortable and is even proud of being a woman at times so no she is not 'trans'. As far as the 'asexual' label who knows? Maybe as she matures she will feel differently.

Reynadotcom

how do you come to that conclusion? There can be any number of reasons someone prefers the clothes they do. Clothing preference does not define a woman and it sounds like she really understands her daughter better than a random internet stranger can diagnose from one anecdote about their lives.

This late stage capitalism, turn yourself into a categorised product by spending, slicing and judging is really starting to grate!

No, that is tangential to what I said. What does or does not happen with pay does not contradict my point. My point being that internet denizens tell girls who want respect that wanting respect makes them men.

P.S. interesting that your graph does not disaggregate male workers and female workers. Very interesting.

It doesn't even disaggregate LGBTQ. FFS, what kind of useless set of stats is this?

Like a gay married man, a bisexual man married to a woman, and an out lesbian would have the same experience in the workplace! As if.

So what point are you making?
"I think women should be paid an equal amount to men!"
"ahh, so you must be a man"

Nobody is making points like that and nobody worth their salt is going to. You're making up arguments and arguing against them to prove why "trans ideology" is so wrong. That's not anything TRAs are saying! That's a future strawman!

Also it doesn't have different cis genders because the study wasn't looking into that. It was just looking at how different members of the lgbtq+ community have significant wage disparities

What?!!!

So a girl who felt self conscious about her developing body and found a way to deal with that is 'trans'. Wearing clothes that are baggy to hide your shape when you are growing up makes you trans? We're almost all bloody 'trans' then!

You clearly didnt read as far as 'Now at sixth form she can wear what she likes and she has at times shown a spark of being proud to be a woman'

Thank goodness no-one persuaded her she was trans and took that away from her, eh?

Given the number of American males who identify as women and are also billionaires, the statistic for transwomen doesn't seem likely to be accurate.

She just shuts me down, stating that I am violating her boundaries if I even try and discuss this with her.
hasn’t it always been the case that teenage children will believe anyone rather than the one that cares most about them.

It must be very hard @mrshoho but it sounds to me like you are leading the way out of this rabbit hole for your daughter with compassion and empathy. Sadly not all children have parents like you.

Stephanie's tireless devotion to children's well being has given so many of us the tools and language to talk to our children about this.

I am forever grateful.

Me too Clymene The TT website is a mine of information. It's also been great to see so many other new sources of support for parents trying to keep inappropriate adults away from their children as they 'diagnose" and weaponise children in pursuit of their own adult issues.

Thank you for the link! I am usually a lurker because I have little to contribute amongst all the knowledgable women here, but decided yesterday I'd try harder to stop lurking and add my voice.
Loved reading the OP's article about Stephanie, great to know someone promoting a balanced outlook is getting the recognition she needs to publicise this issue.