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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Library book complaint whistleblowing

93 replies

TheBookWyrm · 04/06/2022 15:26

Hello. Fairly regular lurker and NC.

Todayi went to my local library and DH pulled out an inappropriate gender ideology book from the kids section, which toddlers up can access.

The good news is, DH is clearly on it as was horrified by the sexualised content, assigned at birth stereotypes etc. It was clearly designed to lead children to the conclusion they are trans.
I work in education and know this book clearly violates the DfE guidance around sex and gender and would be fairly confident tackling it in a school setting, but I've no idea of the process of Rai it with the library or if I'll just get ignored or doxxed.
I feel hollow because i feel i ignored a safeguarding issue, the book is ßtill there, but have no idea how to navigate it without risking my career. I feel a coward but with my family being so young I cannot jeapodise our future.
Any way I can do this anamomously and it will get looked at seriously?

OP posts:
EarringsandLipstick · 05/06/2022 08:18

Saucery · 05/06/2022 08:00

The library assistants notice the book and computer record don’t match, so they check the badly-peeled and re-stuck barcode and see someone has been playing silly buggers Grin

😆

Yes!

Hawkins001 · 05/06/2022 10:04

Reading with intrigue

Cloudburst3 · 05/06/2022 11:30

I think you are too worried about being targeted for complaining. Complain to the local librarians so that they're aware of being sucked into propaganda. It's good to get them thinking, isn't it? Not being inclusive of trans people isn't the same as not thinking children should be sucked into believing there are 100 genders.
If you don't want to do that, I would "lose" the book within the library. I agree with you that it is damaging to children (and to very naive adults).

nannyoggsunderboob · 05/06/2022 11:38

If I found a book like that in our local library, I would inip to the library loo and rip all the pages out and neatly shove it in pieces into the sanitary bin. I would then hide the cover behind the cistern.

MangyInseam · 05/06/2022 12:10

I work in a public library. In general they do not work on the same basis as a school library, even in the children's areas. DoE guidance is irrelevent. While they will try not to have things like explicit materials and will want things targeted to the right age group, they do not take on the parental role. Parents are expected to be on top of what their kids are reading and taking out from the library - including kids reading in the adult sections.

The flip side of asking for a book to be removed is that others may reasonably do the same with regard to books you think are excellent. Public libraries cast a very wide net.

MagnoliaTaint · 05/06/2022 12:33

I still don't know what is breaking safeguarding rules in this book.

Yes, I can see there is some very questionable content that I disagree with, but I wouldn't ask for children's bibles to be removed from the library, either.

If there is inappropriate content and it's been mis-shelved then ask for it to be moved.

Otherwise, leave it alone.

toastfairy · 05/06/2022 19:32

"guess"

that is all ffs

EarringsandLipstick · 05/06/2022 20:40

nannyoggsunderboob · 05/06/2022 11:38

If I found a book like that in our local library, I would inip to the library loo and rip all the pages out and neatly shove it in pieces into the sanitary bin. I would then hide the cover behind the cistern.

You what?

Onceinawhileuser · 05/06/2022 20:55

MagnoliaTaint · 05/06/2022 12:33

I still don't know what is breaking safeguarding rules in this book.

Yes, I can see there is some very questionable content that I disagree with, but I wouldn't ask for children's bibles to be removed from the library, either.

If there is inappropriate content and it's been mis-shelved then ask for it to be moved.

Otherwise, leave it alone.

It's an interesting question. At what point is a book for very young children designed to inculcate what is essentially a new religion deemed not to be suitable for a public library?
Do any librarians know how libraries handle books which, for example, teach creationism (eg the Earth is actually 6 thousand years old and the devil planted fossils to confuse us)? Or the theory that some believe in that disabled people are disabled as a punishment for sins in a previous life? Would a book teaching a child that all their classmates who do not believe in their religion will be tortured in hell for eternity be put in the pre-school category, if the pictures and writing style were aimed at preschoolers?

JennieLee · 05/06/2022 21:11

There are issues about how books are badged. Should they be in the section for Parents who want information about aspects of bringing up children? Or in the reference section which is aimed at children? What other non-fiction books does the library have in stock, so that children can access a range of materials that reflect of resources about sex and gender.

Was the book purchased by a librarian out of the libraries own book-buying budget? Or had the purchase been outsourced to a company - which happens in my local authority. There is also a question about whether the range of books purchased on sex and gender reflects the community which the library serves.

It may be particularly important that young people from conservative religious backgrounds can access information about healthy relationships , their bodies etc - but materials that seemed to encourage early sexual experimentation might well alienate parents. (It is parents who are responsible for ensuring that library books are returned and looked after, so it's a three way relationship - the library staff, the children and their parents.)

MagnoliaTaint · 05/06/2022 21:33

Might be worth noting that anyone can donate books to the library.

MangyInseam · 05/06/2022 21:40

Onceinawhileuser · 05/06/2022 20:55

It's an interesting question. At what point is a book for very young children designed to inculcate what is essentially a new religion deemed not to be suitable for a public library?
Do any librarians know how libraries handle books which, for example, teach creationism (eg the Earth is actually 6 thousand years old and the devil planted fossils to confuse us)? Or the theory that some believe in that disabled people are disabled as a punishment for sins in a previous life? Would a book teaching a child that all their classmates who do not believe in their religion will be tortured in hell for eternity be put in the pre-school category, if the pictures and writing style were aimed at preschoolers?

Public libraries have no reason to avoid books on creationism or feminism or religious topics for children.

That kind of control of messaging is neither within the library's remit nor competence.

Typically they purchace books that they believe the parents might be interested for their kids, and that should include parents of all ideological persuasions.

Onceinawhileuser · 05/06/2022 21:52

So you're saying that any book that doesn't constitute a criminal offence (eg one teaching children how to make bombs to kill those of different religions) should be accepted into the library.
Fair enough. Do you think there should be any attempt to be even-handed in libraries? Eg, is it okay if your local head librarian is an evangelical Christian and makes sure that lots of fundamentalist Christian children's books are stocked and prominently displayed, while removing any books relating to other religions or atheism/agnosticism? She may also want to invite Christian teachers in to read Christian stories to pre-schoolers.
I suspect that some libraries are stocking and prominently displaying TRA books, while not stocking and certainly not prominently displaying books challenging TRA arguments/beliefs. I've certainly seen that. Is that ok?

YoniHuman · 05/06/2022 22:09

Cloudburst3 · 04/06/2022 17:31

I'm pretty sure libraries do have agendas. Our library has various "isn't being a trans teenager great" books in prominent front facing positions.

From personal experience working in libraries there are usually a couple of staff members who enjoy sticking flags on everything at every opportunity. Management are happy as it means they can tick some boxes about inclusivity.

Clangyleg · 05/06/2022 22:22

When I was young and even as an adult prolific reader, some books were not let loose in the library so you would never find them in the wild, but you would have to ask the librarian for them. Sometimes you did, and sometimes not! Nowadays it appears that drag queens are around every bookshelf and books like these abound. Prefer the first option on balance.

MangyInseam · 05/06/2022 22:38

Onceinawhileuser · 05/06/2022 21:52

So you're saying that any book that doesn't constitute a criminal offence (eg one teaching children how to make bombs to kill those of different religions) should be accepted into the library.
Fair enough. Do you think there should be any attempt to be even-handed in libraries? Eg, is it okay if your local head librarian is an evangelical Christian and makes sure that lots of fundamentalist Christian children's books are stocked and prominently displayed, while removing any books relating to other religions or atheism/agnosticism? She may also want to invite Christian teachers in to read Christian stories to pre-schoolers.
I suspect that some libraries are stocking and prominently displaying TRA books, while not stocking and certainly not prominently displaying books challenging TRA arguments/beliefs. I've certainly seen that. Is that ok?

Any public library will have a collection development policy. As far as drawing lines around the nature of the collection, yes the law is one simple line, and the others tend to be a combination of books of interest to the community, ones that are representing a variety of different viewpoints, books that are considered to be good quality information, good reviews, and things like that.

Because budgets and space are limited, it necessitates choices being made, but keeping an open and balanced collection is important.

I would say that it is the case that increasingly on these kinds of very hot sj topics, you will see a lot of resources dedicated to them. And some librarians shy away from controversial books, but when push comes to shove, most will stand up for the principle of access.

You are absolutely right that you will typically see lots of displays and and especially programming about some of these kinds of topics. It's seriously problematic IMO and begins to compromise the political neutrality of the library. You will see Pride displays and such very prominnently for at least June and sometimes the whole of the summer - you would be hard pressed to find a display of primarily religious books at an important religious festival.

But the way to push back against this is not to encourage libraries to start seeing themselves as decision makers about what kinds of books or topics are ok.

JennieLee · 06/06/2022 07:53

Agree with Mangy above.

For me there's also the problem that the publishing industry is not neutral and is not committed to representing scientific reality. It is profit driven. If gender identity sells then that's what they will publish.

There is also the way in which collections are presented to young children. Fiction is 'stories', stuff that is 'made up.' Non-fiction is 'fact'. So if a book tells children, 'You have a gender identity. Your gender identity may not match your body in which case you are trans' they are likely to believe this.

As a parent one might want to point out that gender identity is not a scientific concept, that it isn't helpful for girls who like, for example, climbing trees to be told that means they have a male gender identity. Telling children that they may be 'in the wrong body' can prompt awkward questions and cause distress. One might also raise concern about the increasing number of girls wanting to go to GIDs clinics, taking puberty blockers etc.

Some libraries have special collections for books that are rather more problematic. So, for example, my local authority has 'Julien is a Mermaid' in the ordinary picture book section, but another book that is about a boy whose mother and father don't want him wearing dresses and get angry with him is in a collection that's aimed at parents who are using books to try and help their children explore problems.

I think as a parent I'd be wanting to explore the range of resources the library has on this topic. Do they, for example, stock 'My Body Is Me?'. If there is a non-fiction title aimed at young children which asserts controversial ideas as facts, where should it be placed. I think there'd be a strong argument for putting such a book in the parents collection, so that mothers and fathers can explore this with their children carefully at a time they think is appropriate.

I don't think this is bigotry. It is about appropriate parenting and safeguarding. It is also a conversation that library staff and local authorities ought to welcome.

MangyInseam · 06/06/2022 17:45

Ultimately it's up to parents to look at books from the library that their kids will read. Just like when you go into a book store.

If the library had to decide what books offered facts two thirds of the diet and nutrition sections would be behind the counter!

The bigger problem is that there is now a section of society that believes and presents a group of ideas and also seems to have rather odd ideas about what kids can understand. That isn't limited to gender by any means either, there is a real trend to introducing topics that are beyond what kids are ready for very early on.

I think that as an educator who works in a library, but there are lots of parents who think these books are just great. And the principle the library works on is access. Parents control access for kids, not the library. It's very different than a school setting.

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