Anyone else in Stella Creasy's constituency?

[Circumferences]

She's sent out a personal statement about that interview in The Telegraph (the "women can have a penis" one).

Presumably she's had a lot of women contacting her asking WTF or words to that effect and has felt the need to send something out.

She starts by claiming the article "misrepresented" her, then doubles down by repeating what she said that was supposedly a misrepresentation (albeit in slightly fluffier language).

She also makes the claim that only five penis people are actually in women's prison in the UK right now? Is that true? (I mean, five is too many, but less than I thought).

Needless to say it's a painful read.

Reining, not reigning FFS

Is she just a shit stirrer, an attention seeker at any cost?
Probably

😂👍

I'm sure she didn't mean to conflate sex offenders with transwomen.

😂 This made me laugh.

But sadly it's not a laughing matter. 😔

I was just thinking the 'only 5 sex offenders in women's prisons' is such an awful thing to say.

Imagine when women complained about, say, Wayne Couzens, the response was 'there's only one murderer-rapist in the Met after all'.

Is the difference the murder bit? Is rape just not that much of a big deal to these people?

Of course, one rapist can commit more than one rape and have more than one victim. He may be one person, his victims are likely to be several. So if we're framing the issue in terms of maths, trying to make the number 5 look like a really tiny number only works if you are counting from the point of view of the males. Hey, he's just one rapist!

The number of assaults, of victims, may be much higher than that.

But they are likely to be women, so we don't count from their point of view?

What number of rapists is the point where those in power say, 'well, now, five rapists was okay, but now it's getting to be rather a lot of rapists'?

I think these are the most up-to-date figures from the MoJ report last year:

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1048255/HMPPS_Offender_Equalities_2020-21_FINAL_Revision.pdf

In women’s prisons there were 40 transgender prisoners: almost all of these
reported their legal gender as female, 5 or fewer reported their legal gender as male.

But this figure doesn't include those with GRCs:

There were 10 prisoners known to have a Gender Recognition Certificate as of April / May 2021. These prisoners are not included in the transgender figures included in this report

So in addition to the '5 or fewer', there may be up to 10 more males in women's prisons.

I do wonder why Creasy believes that the number of males who claim to identify as women, with convictions of sexual violence/violence against women is the important detail & not the number of women placed at risk by male inclusion in the female prison estate. One penis owner alone can cause harm to multiple women.

She's also clearly not making the connection to the risk of pregnancy as a basic starting point from her sympathetic support for those penis owners being placed in female prisons. She has concerns over the treatment of pregnant women incarcerated? Why on earth would she actively support placing female prisoners at unnecessary risk of pregnancy knowing how badly those women are then treated during pregnancy & childbirth.

She's not really one for joined up thinking, is she?

That whole report is through the looking glass. "They reported their legal gender"? "The gender with which transgender prisoners identified"??

Well, what was their legal gender?

And what actual sex were they?

"Oh, that's the name of the song, is it?" Alice said, trying to feel interested.
"No, you don't understand," the Knight said, looking a little vexed.
"That's what the name is called. The name really is 'The Aged Aged Man'."
"Then I ought to have said 'That's what the song is called'?" Alice corrected herself.
"No, you oughtn't: that's quite another thing! The song is called 'Ways And Means': but that's only what it's called, you know!"
"Well, what is the song, then?" said Alice, who was by this time completely bewildered.

FairPlay for Women has already done a lot of work on this. I cannot imagine how frustrating it must be for them at every turn to uncover some of this.

The ministry of justice 2020 data does not align with Stella Creasey’s figures. Where did her figures come from? And why are they so vastly different? These are important questions to answer, not necessarily to show who is right or wrong but because it will point out how and why these figures can be obscured. As we know, current accurate statistics are rendered almost meaningless without recording a person’s biological sex.

Comparisons of official MOJ statistics from March / April 2019 (most recent official count of transgender prisoners):

76 sex offenders out of 129 transwomen = 58.9%
125 sex offenders out of 3812 women in prison = 3.3%
13234 sex offenders out of 78781 men in prison = 16.8%

committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/18973/pdf/

As has been pointed out already, one of the fundamental issues is the (un)reliability of accurate data gathering around transwomen in female prisons:

The GRA contains a prohibition on the disclosure of information. It is a criminal offence for officials to share information about a GRC holder’s transgender status and birth sex, except in very limited circumstances.

Therefore the available prisons statistics do not include individuals such as Karen White in their statistics.

committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/16877/pdf/

How utterly depressing to read that our “feminist” politician Stella Creasey thinks that it is acceptable to have biological male sex offenders in women’s prison. It’s “only 5” (which isn’t even accurate) sums up the attitude that women are a means to an end as far as she and other TRAs are concerned.

Apologies, I should add that I was a little mistaken in some of what I said above. Although in 2019 there were 126 transwomen in prison, of which 76 were sex offenders, the MoJ did not publish any data on how many of those were in women’s prisons. And even if they had, it would not have included offenders like Karen White.

That data should be made available every year so that good faith discussions can be had between politicians and interested groups.

Did I not read somewhere that there is no recording mechanism for transwomen with a GRC, though? During the MoJ enquiry/case?

Curious how this will affect data in Scottish prisons, once acquiring a GRC becomes so much easier and all possible barriers are removed. As I anticipate the ScotGov will ensure in due course.

Yes @MagnoliaTaint that is correct. Karen White etc would not be included in “transwomen” statistics for that reason. See above.

What an absolute circus. They have no accurate data of actual biological Males in women's prisons.

Stella is definitely one whose brain has fallen out.

Well, if I was a constituent I might ask her to clarify what she meant by the '5' number, given all the uncertainties discussed here. And why the precise number of males even actually matters, given the potential effects of that one male could affect many, many women.

I guess the poisonous snake analogy works here, too, doesn't it?

That whole report is through the looking glass. "They reported their legal gender"? "The gender with which transgender prisoners identified"??

Well, what was their legal gender?

And what actual sex were they?

You're right. We have no way of knowing what sex any of those people actually are. Of those 40 prisoners who reported their legal gender as female, how do we know that they were telling the truth? Shouldn't the figures have been taken from the actual prison records? Why is the MoJ asking prisoners about their 'gender' instead of just looking at the records?

Karen White doesn't have a GRC.

fairplayforwomen.com/prison-review/

What is ''legal gender'? Where is it recorded and who determines it?

This is from the GRA2004
Where a full gender recognition certificate is issued to a person, the person’s gender becomes for all purposes the acquired gender (so that, if the acquired gender is the male gender, the person’s sex becomes that of a man and, if it is the female gender, the person’s sex becomes that of a woman).

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/7/section/9

It's a mess, because a gender recognition certificate changes a person's sex in legal terms.

So if you don't have a GRC then you don't have a legal gender?

If you don't have a GRC, your legal gender is your sex, recorded on your birth certificate (I think). But maybe not. Maybe the only people who have a 'legal gender', as opposed to a sex, are people with a GRC, whose new 'legal gender' replaces their sex on their birth certificate.

The GRA is a bad law which is full of holes, loopholes and inconsistencies. It should be repealed.