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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

“ “Little Women” author Louisa May Alcott was a transgender man”

88 replies

FlatpackHater · 31/05/2022 13:43

I try really hard to be open minded to transgender thinking.

But reading things like this baffles me.

How can you retrospectively identify that someone who can’t speak for themselves was “a transgender man”.

When half the evidence presented for them being trans is that they didn’t conform to archetypical gendered behaviours, and that being a “tomboy” is held up as evidence of being trans.

How can we be at all sure that someone was trans and not simply rejecting the society’s expectations of how a woman should present and behave?

www.lgbtqnation.com/2022/05/little-women-author-louisa-may-alcott-transgender-man/

OP posts:
SunnyLobelia · 01/06/2022 16:29

Tomboy here too. My heroes were George from the FF and Jo March. I spent my time horseriding, cycling and catching reptiles to keep in my bedroom. I was horrified by puberty and bound my breasts with my horse's exercise bandages to keep them flat.

I rebelled against puberty because going through puberty as a girl was scary, smelly, painful and I could not bear the sexual attention I got from randomers on the street, my first boss when I was 14 and my uncle who used to put his hand inside my knickers. I rebelled against the idea that women had to be compliant.

I have only ever fallen in love with men. I have had 2 children and wear makeup every day.I reject male and female stereoptypes. But I am still a woman and I have never believed that I was a man. What is it about the Trans stuff that hobbles people to conformity? Most women I know have evolved well past that.

SunnyLobelia · 01/06/2022 17:24

[not to say that women who fall in love with women are not women, just to add! I was being clumsy but trying to get across that the TRAs are just completely beholden to stereotypes.]

Snugglepumpkin · 01/06/2022 18:12

All this shows is that transpeople & their so called allies have absolutely no idea of what a woman actually is.

Artichokeleaves · 01/06/2022 21:23

What it actually is is not in any way of interest to this political agenda. The diversity and wonder and expression and lived experience of this half of the human race is absolutely irrelevant, in fact it's downright bloody inconvenient.

What matters is getting it successfully stuffed in the right little boxes to serve the Grand Plan. Hence all the complaints that they won't all get in the boxes and stay in them and restrict themselves strictly to being only what suits the purpose of that plan like what they've been told to.

Boiledbeetle · 01/06/2022 21:26

@SunnyLobelia 💐

sorry about your twat of an uncle.

Why can't men keep their hands off little girls?

SquirtingMyselfANewName · 03/06/2022 20:49

Ah, so this is where it's come from... I noticed Jake Graf had tweeted this last night and it was re-tweeted by Linda Riley.

That's interesting. Jake was a speaker at an event I attended. One thing that struck me was Jake's memory of being a small girl who was expected to be quiet and tidy like the other girls, and feeling how unfair it was not to be able to do the fun stuff the boys were doing.

Jake saw that as an example of being a boy rather than a girl but I very much wanted to ask if it had occurred to him that all the other little girls were probably just as frustrated about it! I was actually quite angry that as far as Jake was concerned that treatment was absolutely fine for "real" girls.

(Unfortunately it wasn't the sort of event where audience questions were invited.)

PermanentTemporary · 03/06/2022 21:27

Tbh it's so fucking trivial. Even if LMA had genuinely wanted to be a man and had lived as a man, which she didn't, she wouldn't have been. They're doing it because she's a female icon.

Gwen Raverat wrote that she wanted to be a boy growing up so much that she felt quite desperate about it, was always a boy in her dreams, and wrote in exquisitely painful detail about the restrictions she endured as a girl (her description of being forced to start wearing stays is tense and horrible). But hey, Gwen Raverat is too posh and too obscure now to be retrospectively transed, so we can keep her. She remains a really good writer about the incredible things that were done to impose the feminine role on girls in the Victorian period, and also a narrator of some of the joys of living and creating as a human being.

Datun · 03/06/2022 22:07

Random789 · 31/05/2022 21:34

Yes, this. Transing the dead is often a way of erasing women who were prepared to fight their way past confinement in order to innovate and achieve.

We got a few years of media, historians, etc correcting the balance by trying to recognise the achievements of female historical figures, and then we get this. It's a fightback by men who are threatened by society's eventual, belated recognition of women as people.

The sexism and double standards are breathtaking. Transing women to rob them of their female agency. If they did all that, they must really be a man!

So they lose female power by being trans.

And when men transition, they gain power.

They get to dictate to women what 'womanhood'' is all about and colonise their spaces. They get to use their male agency - the first 'woman' to direct a trilogy, or fight on the front line, or break this record. And women mustn't talk about female biology.

The men gain power. One that is unavailable to women.

Transing empowers men and disempowers women whichever way round it happens.

crosstalk · 04/06/2022 14:14

How are they getting their heads around Virginia Woolf?

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 04/06/2022 16:17

SquirtingMyselfANewName · 03/06/2022 20:49

Ah, so this is where it's come from... I noticed Jake Graf had tweeted this last night and it was re-tweeted by Linda Riley.

That's interesting. Jake was a speaker at an event I attended. One thing that struck me was Jake's memory of being a small girl who was expected to be quiet and tidy like the other girls, and feeling how unfair it was not to be able to do the fun stuff the boys were doing.

Jake saw that as an example of being a boy rather than a girl but I very much wanted to ask if it had occurred to him that all the other little girls were probably just as frustrated about it! I was actually quite angry that as far as Jake was concerned that treatment was absolutely fine for "real" girls.

(Unfortunately it wasn't the sort of event where audience questions were invited.)

This doesn't surprise me in the slightest. I have long been of the view that many people who identify as trans are not really 'born in the wrong body' so much as keen to escape the stereotypes imposed on their sex. They're also very self-absorbed and instead of trying to change the system so things improve for everyone they focus on changing things just for themselves, because they also seem often to think that they are very special and precious and other people who just get on with things are dull and ordinary and less important, so don't really deserve any better.

If you're a boy from a very socially conservative family, you hate rough and tumble play and long to be allowed free rein with the dressing up box, you probably get used to hearing over and over again 'Put the princess dress down! You can't play with that. Dolls/dressing up clothes/pink t-shirts are for girls, not boys. You should be outside with the other boys, playing football. Oh, for goodness' sake, not tears again! You're a big boy now, you're nearly 5. Crying over every little thing is pathetic, it's the kind of thing girls do, and you're not a girl' etc etc. Doesn't take a great stretch of imagination to see why a little boy from a background like that might start to wish he was a girl, and see that as a solution to all his problems.

What is so horrifying is that instead of helping him and his family to accept that actually what he wants is OK and the sky won't fall in if he is allowed to do non-stereotypical things, medical and other professionals are now saying 'Quite right, obviously something wrong there, he needs treatment'.

Equally horrifying that girls having a bad time with puberty are also being told they can opt out of it all with drugs and surgery, instead of society trying to do something about predatory male behaviour, the toxic influence of porn and so on.

Artichokeleaves · 04/06/2022 19:44

I remember with fondness the poster here who came to tell the women of FWR that they were all TM in denial, as arguing back and not happily embracing oppression meant they weren't real women.

So very, very much to learn about women.

Boiledbeetle · 04/06/2022 20:08

Artichokeleaves · 04/06/2022 19:44

I remember with fondness the poster here who came to tell the women of FWR that they were all TM in denial, as arguing back and not happily embracing oppression meant they weren't real women.

So very, very much to learn about women.

I categorically know I'm not a TM. I can see how with my opinions on stereotypical girl things plus other factors in this day and age teenage me, even twenty something me would be absolutely convinced that i was a TM and that that was the route to all my issues being solved

However I grew up in an age when this wasn't a thing like it is now and all the issues that I had that would now lead to the TM outcome didn't lead me to the TM outcome.

Therefore I conclude that I am 100% a woman who just had a fucked up childhood and hated the effects of puberty on the female body, didn't like pink and could see men got a better deal.

I found decent therapy helped me immensely.

But that's just me!

Cherryblossoms85 · 04/06/2022 20:12

Ah cool ok that makes me a gay trans man then.

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