Braverman says some schools are encouraging gender dysphoria by an “unquestioning approach”.

[ResisterRex]

In The Times:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/91e2714e-dde6-11ec-bcbd-e35b52e0266c?shareToken=7a60b3c35eb7e0a95572ab4933fc84b1

"Suella Braverman said that schools are under no legal obligation to address children by a new pronoun or allow them to wear the school uniform of a different gender. She reiterated that girls’ lavatories and changing rooms have special legal protections as safe spaces."

Meanwhile, Stella Creasy says something about shoes.

www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/stella-creasy-jk-rowling-wrong-woman-can-have-penis/

"Describing as “bonkers” the need for two doctors to decide whether someone is a woman or not, as the law currently requires, she adds: “That brings up all sorts of questions about what is a woman in terms of gender – what does it mean to live as a woman? I wear flat shoes, I’ve got terrible bunions, is someone going to tell me that living as a woman means you have to wear high heels for two years?"

Stonewall represent LGBT people, not just trans people, and according to polling data we're a growing % of the population

There are more people in the United Kingdom who are LGBT than there are people living in Northern Ireland by my calculation.

Not tiny at all! :)

www.theguardian.com/society/2022/may/25/more-than-one-in-10-young-women-now-identify-lesbian-gay-bisexual-or-other

Yep let’s just let any bloke announce he’s a woman and immediately give him access to any & all female spaces

no surgery, no hormones, not even presenting as the opposite sex is required, just a simple declaration saying “I’m a woman”

there’s absolutely no way that would be open up abuse is there

ffs

No, they claim to, but it’s all about the T+ nowadays.

Where's the trans percentage? I may have missed it but couldn't see

Braverman is getting it partially right. I agree, students don’t need to be allowed into opposite sex changing rooms.

She is doubling-down on school uniform rules being tied to sex . That kind of thinking is exactly the antiquated sexism that makes people think that putting on a skirt makes someone a woman. If an item of clothing is allowed as part of the uniform, it should be allowed for any student, regardless of sex.

Absolutely agree, @Ponderingwindow

Yes, the school uniform issue is a distraction which takes the emphasis away from the fact that you can't change sex, and distracts from the legal requirement to have separate changing facilities for girls and boys.

I have seen people grumbling on twitter about how she has now made it difficult for children who are being bullied about their gender identity. I thought to myself, we didn't have this idea of gender identity when I was at school; kids were still bullied, but a good school stamped down on bullying hard. That should be the emphasis now.

The children who identify as trans at my kids' school don't have to wear the uniform like the other kids do. They get to mix and match and wear hats and other non uniform items. Some of the girls use male pronouns and still wear the girls uniform and are called Arabella or Melissa. Some of the boys change their name, use female pronouns, and still wear the boys uniform but with a hat and jewellery.

All of them weaponise their pronouns so they can yell at other pupils or teachers who get it wrong or refer to them by the wrong sex. Other pupils join in at the miscreant for being 'transphobic'.

I don't think allowing this kind of untrammelled narcissism to run rampant is doing them any favours. They're not the ones being bullied.

Have we been invaded by TRA's overnight?

I can't believe there are posters encouraging teenage boys to display their paraphilic disorders in front of girls at school.

That's really not what we're saying @Bootsytree

What I mean, and I think what @Ponderingwindow means, is there shouldn't be a 'girl' uniform and a 'boy' unform. The school uniform should not be segregated by sex OR gender.

It should not be 'boys wear trousers' and 'girls wear skirts'. Having that sort of rule is the only reason we are having arguments about whether trans-identifying children can or should wear a 'boy' uniform or a 'girl' uniform.

The alternative, which I support, is to have a uniform that covers a range of clothing styles, which anyone can wear. Eg, the school uniform choice for bottoms could be either a kilt or trousers. For anyone. A boy in a kilt is not a boy in a 'girl' uniform, and a girl in trousers is not a girl in a 'boy' uniform. They are just kids in the school uniform, and irrespective of who chooses to identify as what, there is no uniform issue to deal with.

Bullying, and weaponising pronouns, is an entirely different issue to the school uniform. Removing the school uniform issue from the equation (by having a standard set of uniform choices for all) would mean less energy has be spent on dealing with the uniform question, and more energy can be focussed on dealing with the bullying issues.

I don't think you can have unisex school uniform. Like it or not, skirts are girls clothing.

@Bundlephobia has it - you have all the usual uniform options without assigning a gender to it. If the boys parents want to buy them a uniform skirt that’s fine as long as every one wears the uniform with suitable respect. Not sure many parents will be supporting buying their boys a skirt ie extra uniform items if the boys want it just to take the piss, that stuff isn’t cheap.

The alternative, which I support, is to have a uniform that covers a range of clothing styles, which anyone can wear. Eg, the school uniform choice for bottoms could be either a kilt or trousers. For anyone. A boy in a kilt is not a boy in a 'girl' uniform, and a girl in trousers is not a girl in a 'boy' uniform. They are just kids in the school uniform, and irrespective of who chooses to identify as what, there is no uniform issue to deal with.

This thing is, you know what teenage school kids are like with their uniform, a boy wearing a kilt will adjust the length so he ends up looking like Britney Spears in the Hit Me Baby One More Time video.

It's a hard no from me.

In which culture? All of them? No.

There is absolutely nothing fundamental to skirts that means they are appropriate for females only. Maintaining that absurd fiction contributes to maintaining gender stereotypes, which contribute to an environment where school-girl-in-uniform can be a cross-dressing fetish. Why on earth would we not want to try to expand EVERYBODY'S clothing options rather than maintaining sex or gender 'rules' for clothing?

If I wear my partner's joggers it's fine. Is it fine if he wears mine? Why not? What if it's a swimming robe? What about if it's a kilt? Or a dhoti, or boubou? Where do you draw the line and it becomes not ok?

Sorry my first line was in response to @Clymene 's statement that skirts are girls' clothing. Typed too slow so others posted first!

Let's not pretend we don't live in a world where schoolgirl clothing is fetishised shall we?

If you don't think teenage boys will do that, you haven't seen the videos of Lila Perry

And no of course there is nothing inherently female about skirts. But we are talking about British school children.

Of course that's the world we live in at the moment. The point is to try to change that.

I don't imagine anyone here would say that boys shouldn't be allowed to have long hair, or wear pink t-shirts on the weekends. Or that girls shouldn't wear a bomber jacket or cut their hair short.

What is different about skirts and/or school uniforms that means they should stay segregated? I'm asking quite genuinely, as it honestly never occurred to me that anyone on here would want to maintain sex segregation for clothing. I grew up in Aus and attended school there, so I'm not sure if I'm missing something.

👏

There's some people being incredibly naive here.

Do you not have schoolgirl porn in Australia @Bundlephobia?

I really don't know. That's what I mean - I really might be being terribly naive and missing something. My youngest child's school has a gender neutral uniform - no skirts at all, just shorts and trousers. But that's a junior school. My older child's school has skirts for girks,

Gah sorry fat fingers

My older child's school has skirts, ostensibly for girls, but some of the boys wear them occasionally because I think the school has decided that isn't a battle that's worth fighting.

And so for me, the obvious thing is to remove any need for an argument about it by removing the limitation on who can wear skirts.

The last wedding I went to the groom was in a kilt.

I think normalising men in skirts/kilts/equivalent is the only way to remove the fetishisation aspect, because skirts are then no longer taboo/girly/etc

But as I said, I've spent some of my adult life in the UK but the bulk in Aus, so perhaps am really missing something