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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The same tweeter for OJ & India?

34 replies

WandaWomblesaurus · 25/05/2022 01:33

www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/india-willoughby-transphobic-tweets-cornwall-7117151.amp

Is this the same account that LOJ was abused from?

OP posts:
NewBootsAndRanty · 25/05/2022 02:15

Yep, it says so in the article.

WandaWomblesaurus · 25/05/2022 06:22

Possibly a hacked account from what they are saying.

India saying "Very scary period to be LGBT - and particularly trans. We have no voice, but are demonised every day by the national press - and that’s having an effect on the public. The next step is violence. If I get beaten up, then the likes of Piers Morgann_, GBNews and Mumsnet will have blood on their hands."

Whilst the individual, hacked or otherwise, is absolutely appalling for the Twitter insults - I don't remember India ever condemning the violent threats of rape and violence given to GC women? Does this mean India will have blood on their hands if women are attacked by TW?

OP posts:
WandaWomblesaurus · 25/05/2022 06:28

Also whilst it's great that the police are investigating the homophobic and transphobic abuse so quickly - I don't remember them getting particularly involved when death and rape threats were sent to multiple women on Twitter including lesbians. Wonder why that is?

OP posts:
NecessaryScene · 25/05/2022 06:55

Wonder why that is?

The standard Mumsnet answer would, of course, be "sex", but it's not entirely that. Don't fall into a trap of being too identitarian yourself.

It's also "establishment". Women, and abuse thereof, can be taken seriously if it's establishment women (eg journalists for right-thinking papers, or heads of authoritarian government agencies), and women are often used as shields for that. (So criticism can be declared misogynistic abuse).

teawamutu · 25/05/2022 06:57

Just as an aside, I hear an awful lot from 'voiceless' India. Although strangely, never anything about the terrible threats directed at women.

Threats of violence must be condemned and dealt with, regardless of who they're addressed to.

Rightsraptor · 25/05/2022 07:42

It says IW is a former GB News presenter - is this true? Seems unlikely to me.

donquixotedelamancha · 25/05/2022 07:46

NecessaryScene · 25/05/2022 06:55

Wonder why that is?

The standard Mumsnet answer would, of course, be "sex", but it's not entirely that. Don't fall into a trap of being too identitarian yourself.

It's also "establishment". Women, and abuse thereof, can be taken seriously if it's establishment women (eg journalists for right-thinking papers, or heads of authoritarian government agencies), and women are often used as shields for that. (So criticism can be declared misogynistic abuse).

I think this is a very good post. The postmodern view of intersectionality misses out the most important factors: money and power.

Its this privilege (in the traditional sense) that allows so many women to jump on the Genderism bandwagon and never confront the problems their views create.

Keepitonthedownlow · 25/05/2022 07:49

I read on twitter that the account may have been hacked by disgruntled ex - so potentially an abusive situation, which OJ and IW, are playing into the hands of the (potential) abuse.

SpindleInTheWind · 25/05/2022 07:56

Rightsraptor · 25/05/2022 07:42

It says IW is a former GB News presenter - is this true? Seems unlikely to me.

It's true. I remember watching occasionally during the first few weeks (when the studio was dimly lit and wobbling like a Crossroads set) out of mawkish fascination; and India was there a couple of times on a panel discussing Very Important Issues Of The Day. And then left in a flounce, maybe over Andrew Doyle or Neil Oliver, I can't recall.

SpindleInTheWind · 25/05/2022 08:06

Although having said that, India wasn't a presenter, more of a part-time commentator on the Dan Wootton show. I can't remember anything at all that IW said.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/05/2022 08:26

Also whilst it's great that the police are investigating the homophobic and transphobic abuse so quickly - I don't remember them getting particularly involved when death and rape threats were sent to multiple women on Twitter including lesbians. Wonder why that is?

I couldn't imagine.

Johnnysgirl · 25/05/2022 08:30

Nobody should be subject to this sort of abuse, of course, but "we have no voice"?? 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

SpindleInTheWind · 25/05/2022 08:39

IW would have had a very big voice indeed if they hadn't flounced from GB News.

ScreamingMeMe · 25/05/2022 08:42

There was also racist abuse sent to Ian Wright and misogynistic abuse sent to Angela Raynor.

ScreamingMeMe · 25/05/2022 08:47

It is all discussed in the original thread, even though the title is just about OJ. It developed as more info came out.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4554627-owen-jones-sent-revolting-homophobic-abuse?page=3&reply=117456054

TastefulRainbowUnicorn · 25/05/2022 08:48

Women, and abuse thereof, can be taken seriously if it's establishment women

It doesn’t seem like the the threats to JK Rowling are taken seriously. Or would you say that she’s not establishment despite being rich and powerful?

And while there’s a lot of talk about the persistent threats to female politicians there’s not much evidence the police take it seriously.

I do think it’s about male privilege, perhaps even specifically trans male privilege. Open to having my mind changed here.

NecessaryScene · 25/05/2022 09:18

It doesn’t seem like the the threats to JK Rowling are taken seriously. Or would you say that she’s not establishment despite being rich and powerful?

Good point. Here's my take.

She's not establishment in the sense of being pro-arms manufacturers or government censorship. She's just an author, albeit a successful one. Rich, yes, but "powerful" is a stretch.

The closest I think she's really come to establishment is being on the "No" side for the Scottish independence referendum, which I think is part of Craig Murray's beef against her, and hence the GC movement, when he went off on one the other day.

But otherwise, she's not really involved in politics, or playing political access games or anything. Her only major political issue is this one, and on this one she's absolutely anti-establishment.

And by questioning any establishment view, you're pretty much automatically ejected from the establishment of right-thinkers.

The examples I was thinking of above were from the US - Taylor Lorenz, a New York Times journalist who despite making a career out of doxxing wrongthinkers was fake crying in an interview about people being mean to her on Twitter, and Nina Jankowicz, prospective head of the new Disinformation Department for the Department of Homeland Security.

They're establishment. Part of the professional-managerial class running the show, telling everyone else who disagrees that they're horrible. And who would never deviate from the correct PMC position.

Here's a segment on Jankowicz - being asked in an interview "what was the experience of being the focal point of this massive frenzy over the past few weeks?"

Some women get to do that - help them use their identity as a shield to exercise power. JKR is not in that position, I think.

And Glenn Greenwald, who I generally admire, and is in that clip correctly skewering Jankowicz IMO, has failed to support JKR in the past.

That seems to be because he does file her under "powerful establishment" and hence is similarly cynical about claims of abuse towards her, as with other "powerful" women. He's fed up with criticising shitty reporters and being told off for "targetting young female journalists". (As if someone who is 36 and writing for the New York Times should be exempt from criticism).

NecessaryScene · 25/05/2022 09:23

Some women get to do that - help them use their identity as a shield to exercise power.

And my point is that they're not really doing it for themselves, they doing it in defense of their ideology - the correct establishment view.

They can only do it because they're right-thinkers, so the establishment will present them as victims, rather than deserving of the abuse.

And hence criticism of the establishment is deflected as abuse.

Rightsraptor · 25/05/2022 09:35

Thanks, @SpindleInTheWind . I only watch Andrew Doyle's show on Sunday evenings and I couldn't think IW would be happy about that.

SpindleInTheWind · 25/05/2022 09:49

Rightsraptor · 25/05/2022 09:35

Thanks, @SpindleInTheWind . I only watch Andrew Doyle's show on Sunday evenings and I couldn't think IW would be happy about that.

I think India could and should have done a bit more research about GB News and its ethos, presenters and commenters before signing up - although I would have thought it was obvious what it was going to be like, and that a former/current tv person would be especially alert to this.

But apparently it was all a terrible shock and horrible and bad. I mean, some of it was and is absolute shit; but it's hardly a surprise?

MagnoliaTaint · 25/05/2022 09:52

If I get beaten up, then the likes of Piers Morgann_, GBNews and Mumsnet will have blood on their hands."

India is managing to suggest that the women of Mumsnet are somehow to blame for male violence? Amazing.

Conveniently ignoring, of course, that its estimated over 6,000 women have been supported to leave abusive relationships by this site.

www.mumsnet.com/articles/violence-against-women/

RoyalCorgi · 25/05/2022 10:00

There's something bathetic about the idea that Mumsnet will have blood on its hands IF India gets beaten up. India hasn't actually been beaten up, so the idea of MN having blood on its hands exists only in India's imagination.

In any case, what's this nonsense about trans people not having a voice? India never seems to be off our screens, mostly screeching ladylike stuff such as "LET THAT PENETRATE".

MagnoliaTaint · 25/05/2022 10:46

Yes. It also doesn't really work to try to big oneself up while simultaneously complaining about being voiceless - 'In her 457th interview, TV presenter/personality/celebrity says: 'we have no voice''.

India has a big, loud, and apparently authoritative voice.

SpindleInTheWind · 25/05/2022 11:47

It's literally having blood on my hands that has always made me appreciate single-sex female-only toilet provision.

MagnoliaTaint · 25/05/2022 12:17

SpindleInTheWind · 25/05/2022 11:47

It's literally having blood on my hands that has always made me appreciate single-sex female-only toilet provision.

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