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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

NHS advertising for ‘masculinising surgical treatments for patients.

52 replies

happydappy2 · 23/05/2022 09:26

We have a desperate need for therapists but they priorities surgeries. I feel so angry tax payers money is funding this ideology.

NHS advertising for ‘masculinising surgical treatments for patients.
NHS advertising for ‘masculinising surgical treatments for patients.
OP posts:
happydappy2 · 23/05/2022 15:05

It seems that it's generally grown adult men who are requesting breast implants/facial feminisation surgery/laser hair removal etc etc OR young teen girls being told they are trans and should therefore modify their bodies. (To a lesser extent teen boys are being told they are trans and require surgery.)

The number of grown adult women claiming they are suddenly trans is ....zero. Why is that I wonder.

But it has NOTHING to do with mens sexual desires at all. Hmmm

OP posts:
FleurDeLizz · 23/05/2022 15:42

Lovelyricepudding · 23/05/2022 14:47

Drug trials are not paid for by the NHS. Yes I would object to the government paying for a trial of a commercial drug developed by a huge multinational pharmaceutical company.

I presume by this comparison though you are saying that 'gender affirming treatment' should take place only within the context of a clinical trial and be subject to ethical approval?

Drug trials absolutely are partially funded by the government. Given you didn’t bother to check that basic fact there’s no point in engaging in your follow up question - you obviously know what you know and facts don’t matter

potniatheron · 23/05/2022 17:06

Call me old-fashioned but I'd quite like to see the NHS sort out cancer treatment waiting times which are so dire that UK has some of the worst survival outcomes in Europe, before it focusses on offering painful, dangerous and poorly tested and researched cosmetic surgery to mentally ill girls.

Lovelyricepudding · 23/05/2022 17:55

FleurDeLizz · 23/05/2022 15:42

Drug trials absolutely are partially funded by the government. Given you didn’t bother to check that basic fact there’s no point in engaging in your follow up question - you obviously know what you know and facts don’t matter

Alternatively you could read my post - the NHS don't find drug trials.

ThinkingaboutLangClegosaurus · 23/05/2022 18:37

Johnnysgirl · 23/05/2022 12:47

It's not. It's scandalous.

Agreed. The people who make these policies should be ashamed.

Woolandwonder · 23/05/2022 18:45

happydappy2 · 23/05/2022 15:05

It seems that it's generally grown adult men who are requesting breast implants/facial feminisation surgery/laser hair removal etc etc OR young teen girls being told they are trans and should therefore modify their bodies. (To a lesser extent teen boys are being told they are trans and require surgery.)

The number of grown adult women claiming they are suddenly trans is ....zero. Why is that I wonder.

But it has NOTHING to do with mens sexual desires at all. Hmmm

Well unfortunately I know of 2 adult female women who are now wanting to identify as men. I have a lot of feelings about it but to say it doesn't happen isn't true.

WarriorN · 23/05/2022 18:51

Let's go to some primary sources.

Detransitioned men and women are learning the hard way how shit all this is (and are dealing with trauma as a result. Trauma much worse than when they wanted to transition.)

This is an account from a male who identified as a woman for 10 years, had surgery, and then detransitioned.

One thing he learned that no one thought might be relevant to him at age 25 was:

Gonads play an important part in our endocrine systemem_, responsible for more than just reproduction, which is something I didn’t learn until I detransitioned. In nearly a decade of medical care, not one medical professional made this clear.*

He goes on:

Just because I detransitioned doesn't mean I've suddenly resolved all my trauma and body issues. In some ways, they’re far worse than before I transitioned because I’m confronting them head-on.

Emasculation
The problems I have with my waterworks mean that even with pelvic floor exercises I don’t fully empty my bladder. That means that, after going to the toilet, I’ll continue to drip for up to an hour. When I’m out and about I must wear sanitary pads or risk smelling of urine.

Shopping for underwear sucks too. Men’s underwear has space for appendages I don’t possess and is uncomfortable. I mostly wear plain black women’s briefs, largely because I’m also wearing pads too.

Because of my gyno-breasts and body shape, I tend to wear a slightly smaller t-shirt to flatten my chest (because fuck binding) along with a hoody three sizes too big to hide the evidence of my prior bad choices.

I've noted before that Sainsburies advertise period pants for "people" but leaky pants and pads for "women;" I wonder how many males who've been through this process it will take before they twig they need to be more "inclusive?" 🧐

WarriorN · 23/05/2022 18:51

tullipr.substack.com/p/lost-boys-part-iii

WarriorN · 23/05/2022 18:54

Basically buy shares in Tena lady pads as from what I've read cross section hormones and "bottom" surgery severely fucks up your urinary system and creates incontinence issues for both males and females.

Are we explaining this to our children who want to transition?

WarriorN · 23/05/2022 18:57

This specific area isn't anything really to do with feminism and "t*rfs" being bigots and hateful; this is a medical negligence scandal of the biggest proportions ever.

WarriorN · 23/05/2022 18:59

And I'm not just 'using' this for dramatic effect, I've told Tullip how sorry I am he went through this and also what a good writer he is. He's sharing because he doesn't want this to happen to others.

I believe he may also be consulting lawyers.

happydappy2 · 23/05/2022 19:05

woolandwonder women choosing to identify as men is one thing (though very rare.) ....do they actually want to take testosterone and have surgery? What age bracket are they? I know Stephen Whittle was born female and now 'lives as a man.' But it really is incredibly miniscule numbers of mature women wishing to undergo the process of trying to have a male body. With more and more detransitioners now deeply regretting what they have been through I just don't think the NHS can justify spending money on this type of 'care.' It seems experimental and also cruel as the results are often far short of what was wanted.

OP posts:
WarriorN · 23/05/2022 19:07

Middle aged women need all the oestrogen they can get tbh.

We really need to bump up menopause education.

IcakethereforeIam · 23/05/2022 19:19

This reply has been deleted

We've deleted this post as we felt it was not in the spirit of the site.

noway1000 · 23/05/2022 19:44

tabbycatstripy · 23/05/2022 10:48

Government has to get a grip on this. There is a set of fundamental questions that need to be answered, and one is ‘what are the causes of gender dysphoria in female adolescents and young adults?’

Because it is more than possible on the evidence that the taxpayer is paying for surgeries that do these patients more harm than good.

Exactly this. The NHS can ill afford to be sued in future over the consequences of this misjudgement. I know people who are currently self-paying for private procedures for basic things because the NHS waiting lists are so long. If ever there were a time to limit some services...it is now.

WarriorN · 23/05/2022 20:08

Some gps I know were discussing issues around cosmetic surgeries done abroad and then the after care and botched clean ups being done here.

We are now in a situation where adults who have detransitioned are asking for support to access actual hrt to replace what's been lost and potentially will need other types of medical interventions, bone scans etc way before they'd have otherwise needed to. the longer term cost to the nhs is going to be huge.

WarriorN · 23/05/2022 20:10

The nhs will do bariatric surgery but now won't help with loose skin after effects due to cost cutting for example.

Incontinence and osteoporosis however are a more serious side effect.

WarriorN · 23/05/2022 20:23

Milli Hill:

Imagine actually BELIEVING that there was a clinical need to remove young women's healthy breasts. Imagine not being able to see past your own culture or moment in history for even a shred of perspective. And then imagine getting the tax payer to fund it.

IcakethereforeIam · 23/05/2022 20:55

Sorry MN.

tilder · 24/05/2022 07:51

I have no problem with the NHS providing care, physical and mental health care, that is clinically necessary and has an evidence base to support it.

My issue here is the lack of evidence. The lack of follow up. The cancel culture is not helping.

Equal access is a separate matter but not less important.

Maerchentante · 24/05/2022 08:07

BananaShrimp · 23/05/2022 12:43

This pisses me off no end. I was born with breasts and they’re drastically different sizes, I don’t have mirrors in my house because I feel so sad and ashamed when I look at my body. The NHS won’t make my breasts the same size because it’s “cosmetic surgery”. But someone who was born with no breasts can have breasts put on and that’s absolutely fine, they’ll pay for that, and equally they’ll pay for someone with breasts to have them taken off. How is this fair?

I've got the same issue and wholeheartedly agree with what you've written.

ErrolTheDragon · 24/05/2022 08:17

Re priorities - I'm lost for words Sad

To be angry that the NHS is offering free "masculinising surgery" to teenagers while my disabled child is being failed? http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/amiibeingunreasonable/4555524-to-be-angry-that-the-nhs-is-offering-free-masculinising-surgery-to-teenagers-while-my-disabled-child-is-being-failed?msgid=-4555524#-4555524

SamphirethePogoingStickerist · 24/05/2022 08:31

WarriorN · 23/05/2022 18:59

And I'm not just 'using' this for dramatic effect, I've told Tullip how sorry I am he went through this and also what a good writer he is. He's sharing because he doesn't want this to happen to others.

I believe he may also be consulting lawyers.

I bloody hope so. We need to support him, and other male detransitioners, in the same way, for the same reasons, we support the female ones. As many of us here keep on saying, it isn't trans people we are objecting to, it is the despicable behaviour of trans activists (many/most of whom seem not to be trans themselves) and organisations like Stonewall, who have bastardised just about everything they ever stood for.

Trans individuals, on the whole, aren't the problem. I will caveat that I am not including our Canadian friend or all the violent men claiming to be trans - they are something else, no matter what Stonewall would have us believe.

I may be a GC feminist but I have not lost my perspective or my humanity and I am as supportive of transwomen who have frankly horrific issues as I am of transmen. It is the system not the individual I abhor. With some exceptions, SG for example.

WarriorN · 24/05/2022 09:10

Absolutely samphire, for me this specific area of the whole gender ideology thing isn't about TRAs v feminists.

It's not particularly about womens rights - it's medical negligence and safeguarding.

Safeguarding vulnerable children and adults, many of whom are autistic or neuro diverse(Tullip had a late diagnosis of autism) and/ or have experienced abuse as children, teens and/ or adults.

It's clear that the male detransitioners have very different needs and often different journeys into it, but ultimately all are victims of the same cult and also cite the internet as a main driver.

There is a difference with other transwomen; where it's older males and those with that issue beginning with A. At the same time it's clear they're not being given all the health information they need to make informed choices and those that do are those pushing for non medical self ID.

WarriorN · 24/05/2022 09:14

Thread by transgender trend detailing horrific issues with "masculinisation surgery:"

twitter.com/transgendertrd/status/1528996825524584454?s=21&t=hQc8p0z-TuRu7dsrLt7WvA

Including a report on surgical outcomes:

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33663938/

Swipe left for the next trending thread