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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Bill Maher

22 replies

JeanGabin · 21/05/2022 10:19

I haven't sent this shared, and it is on the money (bar a reference to trans being innate at the end)
https://twitter.com/billmaher/status/1527887977845649408?s=21&t=cl1LIOwI8uLnxCHrdj7JtA
I can't imagine this airing a couple of years ago in the states - so much has changed.

OP posts:
Cockblockingcowboy · 21/05/2022 12:28

I did see this in the DM (apologies I feel like every time I comment these days it's something from the DM). Being in agreement with Bill Maher is a day I never saw coming.

Yes he is problematic and I would never suggest he is an ally, and I'm sure the position he has come from is opposite to mine but he is saying something and I think he's correct on it.

Will they threaten to burn him in a fire I wonder? Hmm

Misstache · 21/05/2022 13:05

He isn’t wrong. In the last 6 months, literally 4 people in my friends circle have either announced they’re Trans themselves or have a suddenly Trans child.

One of my friends husbands came out. On the surface everyone was all cheering and supportive. I gently asked her privately if she had suspected or seen anything before and she conceded that no, there were never any signs “but she seems happier now so maybe something was always off.” Fast forward to not even a month later and her formerly highly successful professional husband can’t leave the house and is off work because they just try on outfits all day and cry because they don’t look like a young pretty woman. Kids are spiralling and she looks grey with stress but no one can say that maybe this has to do with stress from the pandemic and a mental breakdown in a high power job and not an uncovering of a true authentic self.

Then another friend told me her daughter is now Trans. Same thing, publicly everyone congratulating and affirming. Another gentle private conversation elicited that mother suspects that perhaps history of child’s father being extremely abusive and now having a recent divorce from second husband might be a factor here, and that child likely doesn’t want to be vulnerable to a man and feels becoming a man solves that. Child goes to liberal arts college where all friends are “queer” or Trans, is neurodivergent and previously came out as a lesbian. But no one can raise any of these issues. Child changes name every two weeks.

THEN another friend facing a traumatic situation that has dragged on for years (trying not to give identifying details in this post) rapidly became non-binary and now a Trans woman. Same hearts and celebration. Family that has supported them through the situation suddenly “transphobic” and friend isn’t talking to them when they’ve given up a lot for them. Nobody allowed to point out that maybe facing this hugely traumatic, life altering situation may be why this person might be alienated from self and body and seeking an escape.

and then finally a friend with history of brutal CSA and alcohol addiction as a result - all never resolved through therapy - not only announced she’s now a Trans man but within a matter of a couple of months is ready to go for surgery. Online thing slowing it down is needs to lose weight first. No discussion of the fact that their brother raped their through childhood and family supported him over her. Again, just immediate affirmation and move to surgery. Also a butch lesbian.

it’s just so obvious that this is exploding everywhere. All these people can’t suddenly have just been trans all their lives and are mysteriously discovering that exactly at extremely traumatic points in their lives. No, it must be a true and real identity and to suggest anything else is bigoted and you’re a Nazi.

Misstache · 21/05/2022 13:07

Only thing slowing it down, not online.

MishyJDI · 21/05/2022 13:56

It could also be that there are more people coming out, as they feel it is safe to do so.

Floisme · 21/05/2022 14:01

If adult men and women were coming out in roughly equal numbers then that theory might have some credence. But that doesn't seem to be the case.

EarthSight · 21/05/2022 14:22

I'm waiting for him to be roasted and cancelled like J.K Rowling.....because he will be.......right....?? RIGHT???

Misstache · 21/05/2022 15:09

In Canada, it has recently become more acceptable to be Indigenous. After generations of residential schools, forcible adoptions out of community, being forced onto reserve, loss of language and culture, etc. now Indigenous people are experiencing a “renaissance.” There’s targeted funding in the arts, free spots in universities, chairs and research funding, reserved positions on boards, etc. Which all makes sense as generations of deprivation, poverty and trauma need to be equalized and reversed.

So obviously, only genuine Indigenous people are coming forward, right? No, actually, tons of white people are either lying completely about being Indigenous, or white people with one ancestor from the 1700s are claiming to be “Métis.” They have started Métis groups and use them to disrupt the sovereignty of Indigenous nations. They claim hunting and fishing rights intended to protect Indigenous land and lifestyles. They take tax breaks with fake status cards. They take prestigious chairs and awards intended for Indigenous people. They assume powerful roles and lecture others about Indigenous life and traditions. It’s a huge scandal in Canada and Indigenous nations are pushing back on self ID and declaring that you must show connection to a community or some kind of proof.

It’s obvious that “people just feel more comfortable being X now” leads to people identifying into the group. Of course, they don’t want to identify into being a missing or murdered woman, or onto a reserve with black mold and a boil water advisory, or into prison filled with Indigenous people, or into the child welfare system. No, they identify into chairs and grants and spots in law school and funding. And why would they do that? Why would anyone want to pretend to be Indigenous when life as an Indigenous person is so hard? Because they don’t live the hardship, they take all the benefits intended to redress injustice. They get to be part of a marginalized community instead of a boring old white settler. They get praise and prestige. They live none of the oppression but take all the rewards. Some of them I’m sure also have rough and traumatized backgrounds and “feel” truly Indigenous or that they always grew up around Indigenous people, or that they have a family story about being secretly descended from a Cherokee princess, etc.

So if it happens with Indigenous people and we know that people identify into oppression to take advantage, why do we think every Trans person who discovers this identity must have always been Trans and there’s never anyone who takes advantage or who believes it’s the answer to their problems? Suddenly human nature doesn’t exist and what people say or think about themselves is always true?

Fukuraptor · 21/05/2022 15:13

At the end, Bill Mayer talks about himself as a kid "I wanted to be a pirate, thank goodness noone took me seriously and scheduled me for eye removal and peg leg surgery."

Completely ridiculous when you think of it like that. Meanwhile removing the breasts and genitals of young people is "stunning and brave".

What on earth, 2022?

andtheycalledthewindmoriah · 21/05/2022 15:16

Misstache · 21/05/2022 15:09

In Canada, it has recently become more acceptable to be Indigenous. After generations of residential schools, forcible adoptions out of community, being forced onto reserve, loss of language and culture, etc. now Indigenous people are experiencing a “renaissance.” There’s targeted funding in the arts, free spots in universities, chairs and research funding, reserved positions on boards, etc. Which all makes sense as generations of deprivation, poverty and trauma need to be equalized and reversed.

So obviously, only genuine Indigenous people are coming forward, right? No, actually, tons of white people are either lying completely about being Indigenous, or white people with one ancestor from the 1700s are claiming to be “Métis.” They have started Métis groups and use them to disrupt the sovereignty of Indigenous nations. They claim hunting and fishing rights intended to protect Indigenous land and lifestyles. They take tax breaks with fake status cards. They take prestigious chairs and awards intended for Indigenous people. They assume powerful roles and lecture others about Indigenous life and traditions. It’s a huge scandal in Canada and Indigenous nations are pushing back on self ID and declaring that you must show connection to a community or some kind of proof.

It’s obvious that “people just feel more comfortable being X now” leads to people identifying into the group. Of course, they don’t want to identify into being a missing or murdered woman, or onto a reserve with black mold and a boil water advisory, or into prison filled with Indigenous people, or into the child welfare system. No, they identify into chairs and grants and spots in law school and funding. And why would they do that? Why would anyone want to pretend to be Indigenous when life as an Indigenous person is so hard? Because they don’t live the hardship, they take all the benefits intended to redress injustice. They get to be part of a marginalized community instead of a boring old white settler. They get praise and prestige. They live none of the oppression but take all the rewards. Some of them I’m sure also have rough and traumatized backgrounds and “feel” truly Indigenous or that they always grew up around Indigenous people, or that they have a family story about being secretly descended from a Cherokee princess, etc.

So if it happens with Indigenous people and we know that people identify into oppression to take advantage, why do we think every Trans person who discovers this identity must have always been Trans and there’s never anyone who takes advantage or who believes it’s the answer to their problems? Suddenly human nature doesn’t exist and what people say or think about themselves is always true?

That was so interesting, thank you.

Roseglen84 · 21/05/2022 16:12

Misstache I've heard of a few cases in Canada where that has happened, and it is rightly being called out as cultural appropriation.

Like Rachel Dolezal, when it comes to race or culture, people see it for what it is - fraud! However when it is men appropriating womanhood, somehow it's completely different and totally legitimate...

teawamutu · 21/05/2022 17:17

It’s obvious that “people just feel more comfortable being X now” leads to people identifying into the group. Of course, they don’t want to identify into being a missing or murdered woman, or onto a reserve with black mold and a boil water advisory, or into prison filled with Indigenous people, or into the child welfare system. No, they identify into chairs and grants and spots in law school and funding.

Nothing at all like the males who identify into being bimbos and girly girls, rather than, eg, middle-aged PTA mums who care for their parents while working, keeping the household running and never forgetting to wash the PE kids or schedule playdates.

NecessaryScene · 21/05/2022 17:20

Misstache I've heard of a few cases in Canada where that has happened, and it is rightly being called out as cultural appropriation.

In at least one case it was a transwoman, and it was darkly hilarious watching people perform outrage at the pretence of being indigenous while studiously not noticing the pretence of being a woman.

Misstache · 21/05/2022 18:34

Yes, here is a video of that person. It’s insane that anyone accepted this was a totally authentic brave and stunning Indigenous woman!

Delphinium20 · 21/05/2022 20:35

Elizabeth Warren, a presidential candidate, was heavily criticized for claiming Native 'blood', so it didn't surprise me when she so quickly jumped on the TWAW train...I really liked her too as I agreed with many of her policies. It's pretty egregious to claim into a oppressed class when you most certainly are not.

doublemonkey · 21/05/2022 20:57

This guy is a prick who's dropped JKR in the shit twice in recent times.

IcakethereforeIam · 21/05/2022 21:00

He seemed nice, what's he done?

nepeta · 21/05/2022 21:36

The rates of increase do not support the explanation that this is just people now daring to come out. If that were the case, why are middle-aged transitioners so predominantly male and why are teen transitioners more likely to be female than male?

And the frequently quoted graph on how common it is to be left-handed doesn't support the 'daring to come out' explanation, either.

That graph shows that four percent stated they were left-handed around 1900, but some fifty years later the percentage in surveys rose to twelve percent. The reason for the increase was not an increase in left-handed people, but reduced stigma for admitting to being a leftie.

But the rates of increase in young transitioners are not, say, 300% over fifty-plus years; in England the increase from 2009-2010 to 2019 was 3200%. Likewise, girls were 75% of all teens wishing to transition in 2019 at Tavistock, while a decade earlier they were 43%. The proportion of girls has been steadily rising, but I see no similar change toward more females among middle-aged transitioners.

MangyInseam · 22/05/2022 00:11

Roseglen84 · 21/05/2022 16:12

Misstache I've heard of a few cases in Canada where that has happened, and it is rightly being called out as cultural appropriation.

Like Rachel Dolezal, when it comes to race or culture, people see it for what it is - fraud! However when it is men appropriating womanhood, somehow it's completely different and totally legitimate...

It's actually a little more complicated than that, because it's actually really difficult to put a line around "indiginous".

Many indiginous people do not live on reserves, live in towns, intermary with non-indiginous people, some maintain strong links to family culture, others don't. There were laws at one time that meant some people with indiginous ancetry did not have legal status and there were pushes from within that community to regain it, which in some cases has happened.

So what makes a person eligible for special consideration? A certain % of DNA - how is that meant to be proven? Links to culture? Also could be tricky. Living on reserve? Having been disadvantaged - what about those who aren't disadvantaged?

It raises a lot of questions about what some of these efforts are actually meant to accomplish.

1Week · 22/05/2022 00:42

MishyJDI · 21/05/2022 13:56

It could also be that there are more people coming out, as they feel it is safe to do so.

The poster gave some examples of why there may be other factors at play.
I don't see why we have to blindly accept your preferred explanation when there are other plausible reasons to be considered.
Weak.

RhannionKPSS · 22/05/2022 01:35

Misstache · 21/05/2022 15:09

In Canada, it has recently become more acceptable to be Indigenous. After generations of residential schools, forcible adoptions out of community, being forced onto reserve, loss of language and culture, etc. now Indigenous people are experiencing a “renaissance.” There’s targeted funding in the arts, free spots in universities, chairs and research funding, reserved positions on boards, etc. Which all makes sense as generations of deprivation, poverty and trauma need to be equalized and reversed.

So obviously, only genuine Indigenous people are coming forward, right? No, actually, tons of white people are either lying completely about being Indigenous, or white people with one ancestor from the 1700s are claiming to be “Métis.” They have started Métis groups and use them to disrupt the sovereignty of Indigenous nations. They claim hunting and fishing rights intended to protect Indigenous land and lifestyles. They take tax breaks with fake status cards. They take prestigious chairs and awards intended for Indigenous people. They assume powerful roles and lecture others about Indigenous life and traditions. It’s a huge scandal in Canada and Indigenous nations are pushing back on self ID and declaring that you must show connection to a community or some kind of proof.

It’s obvious that “people just feel more comfortable being X now” leads to people identifying into the group. Of course, they don’t want to identify into being a missing or murdered woman, or onto a reserve with black mold and a boil water advisory, or into prison filled with Indigenous people, or into the child welfare system. No, they identify into chairs and grants and spots in law school and funding. And why would they do that? Why would anyone want to pretend to be Indigenous when life as an Indigenous person is so hard? Because they don’t live the hardship, they take all the benefits intended to redress injustice. They get to be part of a marginalized community instead of a boring old white settler. They get praise and prestige. They live none of the oppression but take all the rewards. Some of them I’m sure also have rough and traumatized backgrounds and “feel” truly Indigenous or that they always grew up around Indigenous people, or that they have a family story about being secretly descended from a Cherokee princess, etc.

So if it happens with Indigenous people and we know that people identify into oppression to take advantage, why do we think every Trans person who discovers this identity must have always been Trans and there’s never anyone who takes advantage or who believes it’s the answer to their problems? Suddenly human nature doesn’t exist and what people say or think about themselves is always true?

That’s a shocking situation.

Pondsprite2 · 22/05/2022 21:13

andtheycalledthewindmoriah --- Great points! And stated extremely well.

Pondsprite2 · 22/05/2022 21:20

I'm not a fan of Bill Maher but he also did a great job explaining the problems with censorship recently. .

And when he was on the Joe Rogan show he spoke out against pornography. I don't think he said he was against porn, but he feels it's gone way too far. He's pleasantly surprising me lately.

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