Trans girl in Heartstopper

[HelenaRavenclaw]

Loving Heartstopper on Netflix, but the only thing that bothers me, as a gender-critical woman (adult human female), is the fact that the trans girl (male) Elle was allowed to switch from an all-boys school to an all-girls school. If I were a parent at an all-girls school, I would not be happy with this! Are most "girls" schools in these days really mixed sex? I remember hearing something about GDST having some common sense, but I don't know about others.

The person who plays the role of Elle is also a (male) trans girl herself called Yasmin Finney. A look through her social media reveals loads of photos of her in a bra (with a very masculine body structure) and other revealing clothing, or bare chested with the nipples covered by hair, as though they are showing off her "femininity". Instinctively, these photos made me uncomfortable. Not sure if a female actress would pose in such ways on a regular basis. Can't put my finger on it, but these photos make me think of the sexualisation of women's (female) bodies even more and it just doesn't sit right.

[LollyLol]

The two girls schools local to me absolutely do NOT accept male-bodied pupils until 6th form when one of the schools is mixed (although very few males join, a trans girl could of course join at that point in time). The head teachers are very clear that it is a girls school for females bodied pupils, in years 7 to 11.

I agree that presenting this as normal is not a depiction of what is happening in society.

If people wish to post weird attempts at sexy photos of themselves online in their social media feeds however, I do kind of think that's their business. Although I reserve the right to judge them for it.

[KittyWithoutAName]

Their social media is no worse sexualised than any of the social media influencers I have come across on Insta and Twitter. I've seen far, far worse, this doesn't even seem that sexualised to me. You can feel uncomfortable but I do feel that there are famous female people who would pose in these ways. Even non-famous! Got a fair few friends who post pictures like this.

[ChiswickFlo]

I hear you

[Fridafever]

I have concerns about males in female spabrs definitely.

Don’t at all see your point about Yas’s social media though. Are you really saying you don’t think women pose in their bras/ have sexualised content on their SM?

[IvyTwines]

Sounds like they are introducing a 'Stonewall Law' take on the British education system into kids' heads.

[user1471504747]

I really enjoyed this series. I don’t think what the actress posts is that far out of what girls the same age post.

I think for the sake of keeping the story as lighthearted and wholesome as possible, and as she was very much a side character with less development, they probably made it look a lot easier to just swap schools. Round here at least you couldn’t simply just apply to a single sex school if you’re child was a different sex. Also glossed over toilets, changing rooms, and also only brief mentions of bullying.

I don’t know yet if this is cannon in the series, but in the comics the schools aren’t actually entirely single sex, they’re mixed sex for sixth form. So Elle starts at the girls school only a couple of months prior to being allowed to transfer as a male anyway.

I think you’re focussing a bit much on a side character in a light hearted story OP.

[EmbarrassingHadrosaurus]

as though they are showing off her "femininity".

Helen Staniland and Jane Clare Jones have an interesting discussion about femininity along these lines and how it's effectively a projection of what a woman is that is being used to erase us.

[happydappy2]

OP I agree there are lots of subliminal messages indoctrinating us to just accept trans girls in what were previously girls spaces. The reality of some girls not being comfortable with a male in their bathroom/changing room/personal space is simply not mentioned. It's a very one sided narrative and Netflix are being a bit underhand with the way they portray this. Then so are CBBC...

[CloseYourEyesAndSee]

I have avoided watching it because that aspect is going to get right on my nerves. However I didn't find the trans character in euphoria to grate on me, maybe because they were written to be quite introspective and insightful about gender and transition. Maybe I should give heartstopper a chance but I am sickened by the indoctrination by stealth.

[ImAvingOops]

I watched this with dd. It did disturb me that there was total acceptance of the idea that you can change sex and be granted full admission to female only spaces and no one asks any questions or considers whether this is okay with the other students. It's a total buy in to the concept that twaw.
The character was very likeable, so you naturally feel sympathetic towards her struggles. But I think having that character is trying to lull kids into believing that sex is changeable, that it's a process without difficulty or consequences for both the teen and other girls.
There's nothing in this series about the medication and side effects, or potential consequences for wider society.

[KylieKoKo]

Not sure if a female actress would pose in such ways on a regular basis.

What? Instagram is full of scantily clad women posing in provocative ways and there are accounts dedicated to the naked male form. This is not a trans thing. I get that you are gender critical but I feel like singling out this one person for being provocative is a bit unfair!

[KylieKoKo]

There's nothing in this series about the medication and side effects, or potential consequences for wider society.

Also the series is based on a graphic novel for teens. I don't think it was intended to be a comprehensive documentary on transitioning and what it means ....

[ImAvingOops]

That's kind of the problem with it though - it's being aimed at teens and giving the impression that transitioning is easy.

[KylieKoKo]

@ImAvingOops

That's kind of the problem with it though - it's being aimed at teens and giving the impression that transitioning is easy.

By that logic it gives the impression that racist bullying doesn't exist because none of the ethnic minority characters suffer it or any of the many other issue it doesn't address don't exist.

I don't think every depiction of every character in every story has to cover every single issue that the character might encounter.

I think it's a simple, teen angsty story about Nick and Charlie falling in love with no side plots. I don't think it is intended to be a full comment of every facet of every situation.

[Pinkbonbon]

The actor/actress doesn't identify as trans though. They identify as non binary.

So I would assume that shirtless days are when they are feeling more masculine maybe?


Yeah...the world's gone a bit mad tbf xD

Seems a bit like...appropriation to me. Trying on their perception of what womanhood is, to see if it fits.

Tbf I think s/he played the part very well in Heartstoppers though And there is reference to the prior year being tough.

It's always going to be a controversial area. Qnd it probably should be.

[KylieKoKo]

It reminded me of Hollyoaks in the 90s - that kind of surface level trash that I secretly love watching 🙂

[picklemewalnuts]

@KylieKoKo

Not sure if a female actress would pose in such ways on a regular basis.

What? Instagram is full of scantily clad women posing in provocative ways and there are accounts dedicated to the naked male form. This is not a trans thing. I get that you are gender critical but I feel like singling out this one person for being provocative is a bit unfair!

What frustrates me is the idea that posing for a photo as a woman means a sexualised image. So Jim poses fully dressed, possibly glowering, but Jenny poses with hair covering nipples and a simper.

It's the signalling of 'look, I'm topless and simpering, because/that means I'm a girl'.

In a similar vein, when men copy women's dance routines the ridiculous sexualisation of women's dance becomes evident. The guy that dances 'put a ring on it' is fab- and brutally draws attention to the difference in men's and women's dance styles.

[ImAvingOops]

If it doesn't have any side plots, then what is the purpose of the trans character? Nothing is put into a show for no reason - the makers of that series sending messages to the audience even if they aren't explicitly stating what those messages are.
I do agree that it is a simple story about Nick and Charlie and that it's impossible to address all issues that any given character will face. Re bullying, they chose to focus on homophobic bullying rather than trans or racial bullying, probably because the gay characters were the primary story.
But, it remains that they have included a trans character and normalised both her transition and presence in a single sex school, without even attempting to address why these things are not simple and straightforward and I think that's to make teens accept twaw and not ask any questions around that.

[SarahAndQuack]

Jesus, does everything have to be ruined?

This is a lovely show that finally centres a story about teenagers having a happy, loving, same-sex relationship. It is really important for current teenagers and also for a whole generation of people who grew up being given the message that their sexuality was disgusting and inappropriate. Do you realise how damaging that is? To go through your whole adolescence watching straight friends enjoying first romances and flirting and holding hands, while you were given to understand that being gay was something dirty and adults-only?

I get that people have all sorts of views about trans issues but it feels so plain nasty to bring them into this series.

[KylieKoKo]

What frustrates me is the idea that posing for a photo as a woman means a sexualised image.

Yes me too but I don't think singling out this one individual for posing sexually is particularly helpful to anyone.

And, increasingly men are doing it to. There are a lot of Instagram accounts aimed at gay men which are a lot more provocative than this.

[KylieKoKo]

If it doesn't have any side plots, then what is the purpose of the trans character?

To be a friend to the main characters? Trans people aren't just trans. They are also fully formed people with personalities, likes, dislikes and opinions. Transitioning isn't the only thing they do in life. They don't have to be symbols for a wider gender debate in every context.

[KylieKoKo]

This is a lovely show that finally centres a story about teenagers having a happy, loving, same-sex relationship. It is really important for current teenagers and also for a whole generation of people who grew up being given the message that their sexuality was disgusting and inappropriate. Do you realise how damaging that is? To go through your whole adolescence watching straight friends enjoying first romances and flirting and holding hands, while you were given to understand that being gay was something dirty and adults-only?


I agree with this wholeheartedly.

[Cheekymaw]

Not seen this series, Op but will have to watch it as my almost 16 year old daughter watches it . Would be good to see what she says about this as she is discovering very quickly(through personal experiences) that it is a man's world and what males want,they usually get if they moan loud enough!
There was a cracking wee girls' state funded school in my home city of Glasgow that was single sex for decades and was made mixed sex recently , against the parents' wishes . Such a shame. And that was without bring trans girls into it.

[Innocenta]

I don't think there's anything wrong with what Yasmin has posted. It's no different from what other people have posted (both male and female).

[Organictangerine]

I feel like there’s an element of fantasy in these LGBT shows (not because it’s fiction, more a what-they-want-to-happen-but-passing-it-off-as-what-would-actually-happen things).

Like in Its a Sin when Richie visits his old (straight) school friend and comes out to him, then says he fantasises about him and wants to give him oral sex on the beach. I don’t believe most straight men in the 80s would’ve tolerated that, had to heart-to-heart with him then given him a lift home afterwards. They would’ve just buggered off (or worse).

I went to a girls school. Coming of age in a group of the same-sex was both good and bad, but it was great in terms of the openness with how we talked about periods etc, open requests for sanitary towels if we had forgotten to bring one to school etc 😆

a trans girl pupil would’ve changed the dynamic frankly, and made me uncomfortable in a number of settings. Sorry it’s just my truth.