BBC Sport: ‘Protect Women’s Sport,’ say two British elite athletes

[NotBadConsidering]

https://www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/61332123

Another two amazing women

That is really heartening.

But notbad have you seen this?

twitter.com/cathydevine56/status/1523742225850834945?s=21&t=3VWJtIdV_33uZDGXSoClag

www.athleteally.org/scholars-athletes-condemn-sport-canadas-funding-of-anti-trans-research/

Athlete Ally, 200+ Scholars and Athletes Condemn Sport Canada’s Funding of Anti-Trans Research

May 9, 2022 — Athlete Ally and 200+ members of the academic and sport communities, including Olympians Quinn and Erin McLeod, sent a letter to Sport Canada in response to their financial support of an anti-transgender research survey. Led by Catherine Devine, the Canadian High Performance Athletes 1 survey perpetuates discriminatory views of transgender athletes and a clear violation of the Tri-Council Policy Statement, which mandates that researchers respect the dignity of human subjects.

Throughout the survey, Devine uses the term “biological males”, code for a trans-exclusionary position, which deliberately demeans and devalues trans women’s identities and humanity and ignores scientific research demonstrating that the athletic capabilities of transgender women are not comparable to those of cisgender men. This language injects a clear bias used to prime participants for answering questions. Priming is widely recognized amongst survey researchers as biasing the responses of survey participants and compromising the validity of the resulting findings.

so good that more and more women are breaking their silence. Because this is getting more and more bizarre. Now the push to remove the scientific based language to do appropriate research.

We cannot use the term males to describe for research? And we were told that sex was no longer being denied…. And that they acknowledged they weren’t females? Yeah…. Sure.

Perhaps they'd prefer the terms penis-havers, ejaculators or Y-chromosome-owners.

Canada is one of the worst.

But I would hope that idiots like that don’t get a say. World Athletics, the UCI, World Rugby, FINA, etc are slowly making their rules that fit with what we all know, and if Canada and Canadians want to protest that in their own country’s court, have fun. Meanwhile in the rest of the world women will get to keep their sports single sex.

I am so grateful to these two British athletes and I understand why they want to remain anonymous, and it’s a sad indictment on the abuse they’d receive should they speak openly.

So no research unless it shows what we want it to show ! 🤔

scientific research demonstrating that the athletic capabilities of transgender women are not comparable to those of cisgender men

It also demonstrates that the athletic capabilities of transgender women are not comparable to those of women, doesn't it? So if it shows that they shouldn't be competing against men why doesn't it also show that they shouldn't be competing against women?

I mean, I know it does. But why don't Athlete Ally understand that?

Each week more Olympic and National sportswomen are giving voice to their rejection of male inclusion In female sports categories.

And everytime that they do, the world not only sees the growing number of women speaking out, but the vitriol and abuse being piled onto them. Or the stories of these women being told their positions are at risk to manipulate them to remain silent.

It really has gone too far now.

Hence this new resurgence of any research that may support exclusion is to be rejected as transphobic. However, even then doing that will now just add to the momentum, because so many previously supportive people are seeing this through this movements lies and behind the scenes coercion.

"Like anyone else in this sport, Lia has trained diligently to get to where she is and has followed all of the rules and guidelines put before her. "Like anyone else in this sport, Lia doesn't win every time. And when she does, she deserves, like anyone else in this sport, to be celebrated for her hard-won success, not labelled a cheater simply because of her identity.

If I train really hard, do I deserve to enter the local primary school's sports day? I probably won't win every time, either.

So pleased to read this. And you're right Helleofabore. The issues with women's sport cannot be silenced any longer. That genie will never go back in the bottle.

If you look at something like a marathon, yes, the elite women will come in much quicker than the average Joe manages. But I have never seen a woman come first in a marathon where men are running.

As for having an open category - I strongly suspect that the Lia's and Emilies of this world would not want to compete with men again.

I bet they have a long standard template from Harper et al that they just copy and paste into every article about this as I’m sure I’ve read the lower two thirds of that a million times.

I clicked the link to see who the athletes are, not realising they are anonymous. I understand why, but how the hell did we get to a point where people stating basic facts have to remain anonymous? While simultaneously people spouting absolute non-sense are happy to put their name, face and reputation to a pack of lies, obfuscation and ideologically driven hogwash? Some days it really is too much!

Great post DeepThought42 There's so much self interest in all of this - and it always excludes women.

" It is common knowledge that, generally speaking, when it comes to speed, power and strength, men are advantaged over women. Hormone treatment can mitigate this advantage, but it cannot eliminate it.
^^
"To pretend otherwise is to defy reason, logic, science and common sense; not to mention reality and truth. Regardless of whether you consider Lia Thomas to be a man or a woman, the fact is that he/she is a person with male chromosomes, and male physiology.
^^
"At best, Lia was a very mediocre male swimmer whose times did not even come close to being fast enough to qualify to compete in the men’s NCAA championships, much less to win an event"

www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/five-time-olympic-coach-dennis-pursley-calls-for-end-of-transgender-participation/

This article from former US Olympic coach Dennis Pursley is superb

Spot on DeepThought42 .

As someone on Twitter (can't remember who) summarised it, female-only sports are ALREADY an inclusive measure, by giving chances to participate and succeed to women and girls, who wouldn't bother if they were competing against males.

I've grown to hate the word "inclusion" in its modern guise - it always means pushing out women.

It’s amazing they quote Harper but don’t mention at all the UK Sports Councils’ report from September last year. All the work that went into that and the bloody BBC can’t even find the energy to report what it found.

At least there’s the novelty of them picking a different swimmer to Michael Phelps to make their stupid feet comparison 🙄. Ian Thorpe this time. No mention of course that plenty of men have now swum faster than Thorpe, but no woman ever has.

Yes.

And the bit about 'biological males' being code. Nope, just fact.

Surely accepting trans women means accepting them fully - including the fact that they are biologically male?

"Throughout the survey, Devine uses the term “biological males”, code for a trans-exclusionary position, which deliberately demeans and devalues trans women’s identities and humanity and ignores scientific research demonstrating that the athletic capabilities of transgender women are not comparable to those of cisgender men."

Speaking of Harper.

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/61346517

Sorry that link to

Transgender athletes: What do the scientists say?

^By Dan Roan & Katie Falkingham
BBC Sport^

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/61346517

a good read

Harper is so disingenuous. Only Tucker cares about the impact on women and not letting ideology override facts.

There's science that says transwomen have no biological advantage, there's also science that says God was behind evolution.

Let's remember that the current definition of a trans woman athlete is the equivalent of a man undergoing prostate cancer treatment.

No surgery is required, they are not required to be taking oestrogen, they are simply required to lower their testosterone levels.

Under current rules a man with low testosterone levels meets the requirement to compete as a woman.

Good to see this on the BBC.

I am very glad that Dennis Pursley is not afraid to use he/she when talking about 'Lia' Thomas.