Indian surgeon plans to transplant a womb into a transwomen

[kieronsmum]

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-10796849/Indian-surgeon-plans-transplant-womb-TRANS-woman-pregnant-world-op.html

lost for words

Let's just say it will be a supremely validating experience and leave it at that shall we?

Look, I'm as GC as most of the crowd here.

I also rather pride myself on not being a total fucking psychopath and capable of empathy. Yes, that totally and completely includes trans women - no matter how much I may personally think that literally changing sex is just never going to happen.

How cold, heartless, and cruel are those doctors (and, presumably, ethic boards)? How little regard for human dignity do those people have, and how much naked ambition to win recognition and perhaps an award or two?

Look, as a human, I happen to be the proud owner of a vestigial tail - a.k.a. my tail bone, a.k.a. "hurts like he'll when I fall on my bum". If you somehow manage to surgically attach an actual feline tail to that, and I don't die of sepsis: that doesn't make me a cat - it makes the person who did this to me some kind of a Mengele level, sick, twisted, only out for their own glory type of narcissist!

I am genuinely sorry for that patient!

I will be coming off the donor list if they start taking female body parts to put into men in some kind of frankenstein cut and paste experiment.

If you have a y chromosome you are a male. And a man.
However the hell you dress, wear your hair, nails, makeup etc. Still a man.
Men cannot become women. Even if this was possible. The poor children who were born in to that setup!

The Facebook comments were encouraging this morning lots of ffs don't be stupid male bodies arnt designed for this uterus is not plug and play if it were that simple women would be doing it all the time then someone says rubbish all they need is hormones they can just put them into needles and inject themselves surely? And someone said transwomen ARE women so of course there body's will accommodate the transplant we are just helping nature after all.....I stepped away ive got enough to deal with today

At what point will "science" think of the child that May or May not be born alive ☹️

Would you feel differently if the recipient were a woman? For example, a woman born without a womb (say, MRKH) or whose womb had been removed for injury or through cancer treatment as a child?

The thing that pisses me off when they talk about 'reproductive justice' for trans people is that the vast majority of them will be fertile! If someone chooses to sacrifice their fertility in order to change their gender then that's their choice! Scientists & doctors should not be going to extreme efforts to facilitate this! And I don't see any effort to help trans men produce sperm to father babies. As always the male ego is first and foremost the most important thing! As we say in Glasgow 'Am ragin ' about this whole idea for so many reasons 😡😡

Butbits totally different if it's a biological female whose body is designed to carry babies!

It does actually make me question my donor status. I've been registered as a donor since forever-I think there was a talk at school! Somehow I remember agreeing to 'Any part of my body...' that however have a very different meaning than it did 25+ years ago.

Does being on that list mean they could use us for things like this? What about our entire reproductive system down to eggs?

This is my concern. No way would I want my eggs or womb being used in this sick, unethical experiment.

Does being on that list mean they could use us for things like this? What about our entire reproductive system down to eggs?

My understanding at the moment is that although we've all given presumed consent (unless we've opted out), the family and friends are still asked about your intentions and discuss it with specialist clinicians who talk to you about organ donation in general.

So, the family could consent to a donation of heart/kidneys/lungs etc. but refuse (say) the removal of the womb.

There is a clinical trial in the UK that is asking for these donations for transplant into women who are infertile for specific reasons.

clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04244409?

The obvious difference is that there have been cases of women having donor uteruses and going on to have successful pregnancies. So it's a proven procedure with a defined success rate. To compare that to an "experimental" procedure that has never been attempted to date is pointless. It's not even experimental, it's just a publicity stunt for this doctor. I have no doubt that you could implant a uterus into the abdominal cavity of a man, where it might survive for a period of time before being rejected or just dying. But that doesn't show that it's possible to create or maintain a pregnancy, nor that it is safe to do so, nor that it has negative effects on any developing foetus. Science doesn't even fully understand pregnancy and the myriad of issues that occur during pregnancy for women.

So, no I would not donate my uterus to these kinds of unethical experiments. But I would consider donating my uterus to a woman, although the likelihood of my uterus being of use anymore is slim.

What actually pisses me off most about this is that this doctor could be focusing his attention on uterus transplants for Biological women. Women who have lost their uterus to a medical condition or who were born without one but who have all of the supporting biology to make it a physical possibility.

Instead once again medical attention, experimentation and research is being focused on men.

We already know that most medical advances are designed around male anatomy and women are just considered as 'lesser men', but it's completely fucking ridiculous if medicine focused on the Uterus, a uniquely female organ is focused on Men too.

But it's not butbits 🙄

But that doesn't show that it's possible to create or maintain a pregnancy, nor that it is safe to do so, nor that it has negative effects on any developing foetus.

I agree. The trial that I mentioned is about women who are infertile for specified reasons.

However, the principal investigator for the trial is the one at the heart of this thread where he equivocated about transplants/implants because he recognises transwomen as women.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3605548-Imperial-College-Womb-Transplant-Survey-Redux?

NB: I stress that that is nothing to do with the clinical trial that is only for female recipients.

It led me to wonder if I should be having conversations with family and friends about their wishes (if sadly, they were in a position where considering donation comes up) now and in the future. For now, would they want to be considered for donating to an infertile woman as in the trial.

In the future, would they wish to consider the gift of donation to a woman who was a detransitioner and had had her womb removed as part of the affirmation but had since detransitioned and wanted to conceive?

Setting aside transwomen, I'm trying to get a sense of the scope of transplantation discussions with my friends and family so I understand their wishes.

1 in 4 pregnancies end in miscarriage, millions of women suffer from infertility, PCOS, endometriosis, the list goes on....

But what we should be focusing on is how to get blokes to gestate and give birth to a baby?

Yes! Womb transplant in females is a very new procedure & I'm sire theres plenty of work to be done to refine technique & improve outcomes for women! But no, let's quickly move on to men. Makes me so cross!

You put a womb from a woman into a man , you then transplant an embryo from a woman's egg into it, you then carry out a c section to get a baby out and this makes a man feel like a real woman? Fucking lunatics.

Couldn't have said it any better than this^^

…and be effective in allaying dysphoric symptoms. After all, gender dysphoria entails discomfort and even distress with one's biological sex.

Are you fucking kidding me??? Babies should be sacrificed on the altar of medical ethics so that someone who has issues better addressed by way of psychological counselling to reconcile them with their perfectly functional body can maybe feel a bit happier?

Roll up, people with anorexia, get your liposuction here! Come along BIID sufferers, we’ll whip those pesky limbs off in no time! That’s how we roll here, apparently.

And how many transwomen retain there penis again? You know the disgraceful sign of manhood that your ao dysphoric about that you choose to retain and use in a manly fashion while banging on about being a woman....Will those types of women want a uterus? Or just the other type? I'm genuinely fucking confused about this

Apart from rich people who is their target audience?

Is there demand or any research into a prostate transplants for FTM people, to allow them to experience male sexual pleasure?

I will be absolutely astounded if that doctor’s experiment made it past any ethics board.

Maybe he will do it anyway. But as with the rats proving that there needs to be a lot more systems at play in the body other than a plug and plug uterus.

There is the ethics of experimenting with human embryos. They just increased the limit before they have to be destroyed to 21 days for stem cell research.

How can an embryo be authorised for this use? It has no chance of survival. No chance of development.

If foetuses simply developed in a bag by themselves, it would be a common thing now. Just growing a baby in a a bag.

That it isn’t already being commonly done means these doctors know very well that these males will not be able to carry a healthy foetus to term. It is not ethical in any way.

Wasn't there an early medical transition of a man to transsexual in the 1920s who died of the "experiment" of a uterus transplant? It was a very sad story, IIRC - and a demonstration of the appalling ethics of this so-called 'science' - there's been very little actual proper experimental data, as we know.

I think I"ll have to rescind my organ donor card.

Our bodies are designed to move organs and grow more skin around the growing child. How does simply transplanting a uterus enable this?

A: it doesn't.