Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I’m scared

55 replies

CindyLouWho1 · 09/05/2022 03:09

An American friend who is very pro-choice posted something on social media about the repeal of Roe vs Wade in the US.

In response, a male friend of hers posted berated her for transphobia because she’d mentioned the word woman and referred to female reproductive organs.

She posted a lengthy apology about how “grateful” and “humbled” she was to have been called out on this. She apologised for “neglecting to consider people with penises” and promised to be “careful” not to deny other people’s identities when expressing her opinions in case she unwittingly perpetuates “harmful attitudes”.

What. The. Fuck. Is. Going. On???

When did people start talking - and thinking - like this? OK, some trans men and NB people don’t identify with the word woman but that doesn’t change the fact that abortion is an issue that specifically and exclusively affects people with FEMALE bodies (commonly known as women) and I cannot imagine how or why it is considered transphobic to acknowledge that. And it certainly has fuck all to do with “people with penises”, however they identify.

I just don’t understand. The post reads like it was written by a member of a cult. Or like I’ve said elsewhere, like 1984. I find it incredibly sinister and disturbing.

To be kind and considerate towards minority groups who are suffering oppression is commendable but to put their feelings above everything else, even when the topic in question doesn’t even concern them, and to apologise for failing to do so - that’s just fucking insane.

OP posts:
CharlieParley · 10/05/2022 15:20

We discussed this at dinner yesterday as DS1 and his friend group (mid twenties) are clearly concerned about the issue. They're broadly leftwing and largely buy into TWAW but are pro-choice. I explained that in my opinion, the pro-choice side in this fight has self-sabotaged to the point where I don't think they can mount an effective challenge. And they cannot argue against that, because they haven't even started to think this through.

If you cannot clearly and categorically state that this is about the right of women and girls to make their own choices concerning their bodies, and that the conflict here lies primarily in men's determination to control this choice, it's in my view not possible to argue the case.

We have sufficient evidence from past and present to show that denying us the right to choose whether to grow a baby inside our bodies or not is an act of oppression on the basis of our sex. A calculated, deliberate act not concerned with the life of the child.

If it was, anti-abortionists would campaign differently, focusing on supporting women and girls in poverty, which is still one of the main reasons why we make that difficult choice. Such efforts would reduce the need. But they don't.

Instead they continue. In the full knowledge that they cannot prevent abortions with their campaign. All they can prevent are legal and safe abortions. Wherever in the world we live, whatever our laws say, if you are desperate to have an abortion, there is a way. And the fact that we choose ways that may kill us should tell these campaigners something about our needs but they don't care about the mothers and they don't care about the children.

The only thing they care about is control.

And when we cannot get to the root of what that control is about, we cannot defend our right to choose.

"It's about people's right to choose what to do with their bodies and people don't have the right to stop other people from making that choice."

What the fuck kind of useless argument is that? Which people need that right? Which people aren't ever going to need that choice? If it's not about people's bodies but about the unborn alone, then why shouldn't the sperm-provider get a say?

As you say in your OP, CindyLouWho1, if you apologise to the people with penises - who have nothing to do with the issue - for leaving them out of the argument, you just can't fight this. You've already conceeded that men should have a say over women's rights to decide what happens to their own bodies.

How can we make our case when we give men that right from the outset?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/05/2022 18:47

Excellent points Charley.

nepeta · 10/05/2022 19:33

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 09/05/2022 19:21

Do we need women's groups to write to journals and newspapers that use this dehumanising language and firmly resist?

We should all complain, those who are in journalism should submit pieces. We need to be as noisy as the other side has been and persistent. As others have stated, no grovelling apologies, no attempt to find 'inclusive' language which erases our whole sex and our sex-based rights in order to prioritise an extremely tiny group.

In 2017 the percentage of abortions that were performed on transmen and nonbinary female people was 0.06%. That is six in ten thousand. And we are changing everything for that tiny group. Even if it's larger now, it will be nowhere near even one percent. So those who are to be erased and who are told to be kind are well over 99% of all female people who have abortions, in 2017 over 99.9%.

nepeta · 10/05/2022 19:33

To clarify my earlier post, the data I mention there is US data.

Phobiaphobic · 11/05/2022 09:48

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread